Eye Level Double Oven

[Jupiter01]

Hi Guys,

I am planing to lay a dedicated circuit for the above using a 10mm T&E cable. As part of my kitchen design, I am planning to situate all the FCU's for the integrated appliances (around 7) in a single wall unit (they will then run a socket to the appliance as the Load). I intend to include the double pole switch for the cooker in here too. This will be around 5 metres away from the Oven Connection Unit but I intend to run the 10mm cable between the double pole in the cupboard to the Oven Connection Unit too.

Does this sound okay and any feedback on my idea to locate all the FCU's in the cupboard.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I am planing to lay a dedicated circuit for the above using a 10mm T&E cable.

6mm² will be adequate for anything you will ever need. Probably 4mm² would do.

As part of my kitchen design, I am planning to situate all the FCU's for the integrated appliances (around 7) in a single wall unit

You do not need any FCUs for this. The plugs will have fuses in them.

I intend to include the double pole switch for the cooker in here too.

The cooker switch is for emergency use and should be readily accessible in a panic.
If you hide it away, you may as well go without.

This will be around 5 metres away from the Oven Connection Unit but I intend to run the 10mm cable between the double pole in the cupboard to the Oven Connection Unit too.

See above 10mm² is just a waste.

Does this sound okay and any feedback on my idea to locate all the FCU's in the cupboard.

No it's not ok. It would appear that you do not really know what is required or why.

 

[Jupiter01]

yes but the plugs will be in various units and in some cases may be difficult to access. Wouldn't it be more practical to have all of these FCUs in an accessible wall unit?

 

[Jupiter01]

also, I have a length of 10mm but dont have any 6mm

 

[flameport]

the plugs will be in various units and in some cases may be difficult to access

So what?
They will only need to be accessed if the appliance is being removed, which will be due to it being broken / repaired / replaced. Perhaps once in 5 years.

 

[JohnW2]

yes but the plugs will be in various units and in some cases may be difficult to access. Wouldn't it be more practical to have all of these FCUs in an accessible wall unit?

I suspect that you are probably under the impression that if you have FCUs, the fuses in them would blow rather than those in the appliance's plugs. There's no reason why that should be the case - if there is an overload or fault current then one or other of the fuses (or both) may blow. Furthermore, as flameport has said, if any fuse blows it almost certainly means that the appliance would have to be pulled out (for inspection, repair or replacement), in which case any plug behind it would become accessible.

 

[ericmark]

Unless you use 15A plugs and sockets then using a FCU would mean two fuses on the same circuit and if 13A either could rupture and you will have no idea which has failed, so rather pointless. It would be nice if you could buy 16A fuse connection units to supply cookers and the like, but I have only seen them up to 13A, so it is in the main pointless using cable which is rated well over the 13A limit for a FCU. There are some specials where volt drop or loop impedance is an issue, but this is rare.

Using grid switches to isolate fridge/freezer, oven, dish washer etc is common, but the terminals for the switches have a problem getting 2 x 2.5mm² cables in them never mind any thicker, it is common to use two 2.5mm² cables in parallel rather than a single 6mm² cable simply to be able to get the wires in the switches.

Now my mother kitchen has a consumer unit in the kitchen for all items in the kitchen, that is another situation, yes she has a 16A RCBO for oven, and 32A for hot plate with others. But this is not a FCU it is a mini consumer unit. MCB's and fuses produce heat, and cooling must be provided.

I would get out the drawing board and start re-designing as it seems you have not understood what is required.

Out of interest does a double eye level oven have the two units side by side, if not how are they both eye level, and who's eye is it level to? Had problems with mothers kitchen oven high enough to allow the door to open over the wheel chair but low enough so she could see in the grill from wheel chair, even then forgot she would view controls from below, and all marking were designed to be viewed from above, so had to make cards to allow her to set temperature from below.

I get a bad back using eye level grill as stooping down all the time to get low enough.

 

[Jupiter01]

thanks guys that's very helpful input. I will have around 7 integrated appliances and all I am trying to do is have a central point to isolate each of them I.e. The cupboard with the FCU's rather than under the cupboards or behind the units or wherever the actual connections may be located. Its a bit like the kitchen consumer unit argument. I appreciate that it doesn't protect me on the fuse front as this will effect both ends but I thought that I would be able to go to a single cupboard where all appliances are labelled and could be switched on and off

 

[JohnW2]

I will have around 7 integrated appliances and all I am trying to do is have a central point to isolate each of them I.e. The cupboard with the FCU's rather than under the cupboards or behind the units or wherever the actual connections may be located.

No problem with that but what is being said is that you could use (20A) DP switches for that purpose, rather than FCUs (with their 'unnecessary' fuses).

Only if the appliances were to be hard-wired, rather than supplied via plugs (with fuses), would you need FCUs.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I will have around 7 integrated appliances and all I am trying to do is have a central point to isolate each of them I.e.

Why? To what end?

The cupboard with the FCU's rather than under the cupboards or behind the units or wherever the actual connections may be located. Its a bit like the kitchen consumer unit argument.

No, it isn't.

I appreciate that it doesn't protect me on the fuse front as this will effect both ends but I thought that I would be able to go to a single cupboard where all appliances are labelled and could be switched on and off

But why will you want to?

I realise it is your house and you may do what you want but this is just doing something solely because you can with no useful purpose.

 

[Jupiter01]

@EFLImpudence I am trying to make it easier should I want to switch any appliance off. So rather than hunting for the socket or FCU that the appliance is wired into, I could go to this cupoard and using the DP or FCU's I can manage everything. Is there no logic to this and should I rather just rely on the sockets/FCU's that will be situated around the individual appliances?

 

[EFLImpudence]

@EFLImpudence I am trying to make it easier should I want to switch any appliance off.

The appliances all have switches.
I know there are electrical reasons for having double pole switches (FCUs are not needed) but this is blue moon territory and is pulling out a plug such a bind?

So rather than hunting for the socket or FCU that the appliance is wired into,

It will not be an FCU (please forget about FCUs).
You will not have to hunt; you will know where they are.

I could go to this cupboard and using the DP or FCU's I can manage everything.

NOT FCUs. Ok, if that's what you want.

Is there no logic to this and should I rather just rely on the sockets/FCU's that will be situated around the individual appliances?

I don't think there is any need for them.

You do realise that you will need seven separate cables, instead of one (or two), from your cupboard to your appliances.
Is all this going to be run from one point on a ring circuit or is it a radial?
I don't know how far is your cupboard from a direct cable run.
May be obvious but just thought I'd mention it.

It is your house and you are free to ignore me but, to me, it just seems like playing around.

 

[JohnW2]

@EFLImpudence I am trying to make it easier should I want to switch any appliance off.

The appliances all have switches. ... I know there are electrical reasons for having double pole switches (FCUs are not needed) but this is blue moon territory and is pulling out a plug such a bind?

Although it very probably does not apply to the OP, to be fair there are also sometimes some 'non-electrical' reasons (which, when applicable, are not in blue moon territory) for having semi-'remote' switches - for example, if there are issues in relation to children or potentially confused/forgetful elderly (or other) people.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Jupiter01]

I am using a 4MM radial for the kitchen. The cupboard being discussed is around 5 metres from the consumer unit and each run from here will be around 5 metres. In summary, if the DP switches were located in this cupboard, the appliances will then have a 4mm cable running to their socket or FCU (Not sure why you crossed this out in your response). I would have though that the cooker hood would require a FCU rather than a socket?

Tell me if you still think its pants! I will then use a radial and go to each of the appliances in a "conventional" manner. Thanks for the help.

 

[JohnW2]

I am using a 4MM radial for the kitchen. The cupboard being discussed is around 5 metres from the consumer unit and each run from here will be around 5 metres. In summary, if the DP switches were located in this cupboard, the appliances will then have a 4mm cable running to their socket ...

If all that is going to be on the end of each cable is a (presumably unswitched) single socket for an appliance, then 2.5mm² cable would be adequate (or even 1.5mm², if there was no chance of your ever wanting to change to to a double socket).

... or FCU (Not sure why you crossed this out in your response).

I presume that, like me, EFLI was trying to discourage you from the unnecessary use of FCUs!

I would have though that the cooker hood would require a FCU rather than a socket?

As I said before, if the 'appliance' (in this case the hood) is plugged into a socket (which many cooker hoods are), then it does not need an FCU, but if it is hard-wired, then it probably would need an FCU.

Are all 7 of your integrated appliances are being fed from one single 4mm² radial from the CU? If so, what are these appliances?

If any of the cabling is to be buried in walls, have you give thought to the routing of those cables from your switches to the appliance sockets so as to keep the cables within permitted 'safe zones'?

Kind Regards, John