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EZE Lap Diamond Stones?

Discussion in 'Tools and Materials' started by kaseryn, 27 Jun 2020.

  1. kaseryn

    kaseryn

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    Anyone got experience of these? Was looking at DMT stones but these are in a similar price bracket.
     
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  3. Ryler

    Ryler

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    Diamond stone?
    If its diamond its a metal plate surely. I have a 200 x 75mm dmt plate.

    Stone is stone. Like the japanese shaptons.
     
  4. Notch7

    Notch7

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  5. kaseryn

    kaseryn

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    Thanks... i'll have a look at those too. Had a bad experience with a cheap one first time round so bit more careful now.
     
  6. lostinthelight

    lostinthelight

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    I guess most will know what op means though.
     
  7. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    Had the Ultex oned for about 4 years now (rwo double sided, or 4 x different grits), still happy with them on site use (other than the weight)
     
    Last edited: 28 Jun 2020
  8. kaseryn

    kaseryn

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    Good to know.. those are so much cheaper than the DMT ones..
     
  9. Ryler

    Ryler

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    After the dmt plate I finish my chisels/plane irons off on 2400 wet/dry sand paper taped unto a small pane of toughened glass.
    Which leaves a mirror finish. And razor sharp.
     
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  11. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    Not tried a Shapton glass waterstone for finishing? Overkill for most site work, I admit, but no need to pre soak, just spritz with water and you're away
     
    Last edited: 29 Jun 2020
  12. kaseryn

    kaseryn

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    The thing is.. you want it sharp, but the finer the edge, the quicker it's gone right? so a fine stone finish would be more than a fair tradeoff off in time/usefulness i think..
     
  13. Ryler

    Ryler

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    I have PM-V11 tool steel in some of my finer hand tools.
    But haven't used them enough to know its durability but its claimed this steel will last at least twice as long in use as an A2 blade before it needs sharpening.
     
  14. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    The problem with these fancy steels is that there is always a trade off between hardness (durability of edge) and sharpness. The best (sharpest) edge you can get is on something fairly basic like O1 (oil quenching) carbon tool steel, with water quenched tool steels such as W1 just behind it. A1, a commonly used American steel will hold an edge longer, but is never absolutely as sharp. I have no doubts that PMV-11 is going to be harder, but less sharp still, because it is the product of alloying a tool steel with some esoteric mixture of alloying elements (such as tungsten, boron, manganese, molybdenum, titanium, unobtanium, etc). Doing that makes for a larger molecular structure, I'm told, which cannot be taken to such a sharp edge.

    So you go for traditionsl carbon steel and you end up touching up more often but have a sharper, if ultimately weaker edge. TBH for hand tool woodworking I can live with that - after all I've hand 5 decades to perfect my figure of eight sharpening technique (I started young). For tasks such as turning, though, the ability of these modern alloyed steels to keep a reasonable edge longer and also to resist burning when ground on a high speed wheel (which can so easily draw the temper of a carbon steel tool when used by the unwary) is a major plus IMHO

    Not sure for most site work that I need to go above 1200 grit, especially as i have my old leather strop and some valve grinding paste for those rare, exceptional cuts
     
    Last edited: 30 Jun 2020
  15. Ryler

    Ryler

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    PM-V11 powdered metal blades theoretically should provide the finest edge.
    They do this in practice as long as you use the appropriate honing media. If you cannot do this, then stick to steels that suit your media. The durability of PM-V11 is especially apparent in chisels, where they are almost on par with Japanese white steel, and both are in another class to A2 and O1 in regards edge holding. But without the appropriate media (diamond, ceramic waterstones), they will not produce the edge they are capable of.
     
  16. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    I think that is sales hype, TBH. Steels produced with PM (powdered metal) technology can have a higher carbide content than those produced by conventional melting processes (e.g open hearth, LD converyer, etc.) and whilst this produces a.steel with much improved wear characteristics and makes the steel ideal for the production of high volume die injection and press tool tooling, for example, it is not conducive to chipping resistance (edge stability/sharpness). So when you sharpen your powdered metal cutters you will indeed need much harder sharpening media to deal with the carbides, and the edge will.last longer, but because the carbides are so large the ultimate sharpness can never be as good as a well hardened and tempered tool steel. It's a simple fact of metallurgy.

    Don't confuse edge holding with sharpness. Any steel metallurgist will tell you that they are NOT the same thing

    Incidentally i do have a single PMV-11 blade for my Veritas block plane. On materials such as plywood and MDF it holds an edge far longer than the O1 blade i had made for me in the UK, but it isn't anywhere near as good when used on awkward softer timbers such as rowed sapele. So PMV has it's uses, but it isn't as sharp and it's a PIA to sharpen (even when you have access to CBN, Trizact, etc)
     
    Last edited: 30 Jun 2020
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