False Ceiling in Garage

[LaughingJon]

Hello, I'm thinking of dividing my garage into two rooms by adding a stud wall, making one end a utility room and leaving the other end as a smaller garage. The garage is integral to the house (built around 1960) and has high ceilings.

The main issue is that the ceiling has what I think are asbestos based panels nailed to the joists.

I believe this is fairly inert/low risk stuff unless of course you start drilling into it. I didn't want to disturb this stuff or have it removed so I thought about putting up a false ceiling, and effectively sealing it in.

I was considering fixing a timber framework to the ceiling and adding plasterboard, but I'm concerned about screwing the framework to the existing ceiling ( you can make out where the joists are).

Any advise would be welcome.

 

[SFK]

Jon,
I suggest that you do not put any screws into the ceiling.
Instead put a length of wood onto the wall on each side of the room, and attach to these the joists to span the gap.
The gap between the joists and ceiling (and/or between the joists) can be filled with insulation to help keep the room above warmer.
If you are careful about the positioning of the joists you can minimize the cuts needed on the Plasterboard

Perhaps easier but more expensive, instead of the two lengths of wood you could use Joist Hangers such as these:
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p96431

sfk

 

[LaughingJon]

Thanks SFK, that's a great idea, I didn't fancy screwing anything to the ceiling.

BTW I have to remove some old metal brackets from the ceiling which have been used to store wood. I feel fearful even removing them. The first one I have tried is very stiff, just an old slotted screw bit it refuses to budge. I sprayed WD40 around the screw and bracket to stop any dust and wore a mask, will have another go tonight but suspect I'll have to saw of the screw head.

 

[SFK]

Jon, My pleasure.
As the joists will be dropping into the room (if that makes sense) you can hide lot in the void you are creating. So why not leave the screws along and either: if the new ceiling is going to be very low leave the old metal brackets on the old ceiling; or cut the metal brackets themselves with a hacksaw at some point away from the old ceiling.
sfk

 

[LaughingJon]

Hi again, yes I think I will give it another bash with a longer screw driver, I couldn't get purchase with my existing one. the bracket is already loose at the top and can rotate slightly. (I have been careful with this as I don't want it to scrape any particles off the ceiling, and sprayed plenty of WD40) I'm pretty paranoid about this stuff, my wife thinks I'm over the top, but it's better than dying with a rattle.

I like the joist bracket idea though, very good.

I still have one remaining problem, in that I want to put up a stud wall dividing the garage into two rooms and anticipated fixing a horizontal length of CLS to the ceiling.

I suppose I could just fix it to one of the new joists and support it vertically with CSl at the sides? What do you think?

 

[SFK]

Jon,
Note that I am a DIYer not a builder.

But yes, for your stud wall I would do as you say use one of the joists that are on hangers as the TopPlate of the stud wall.
Or if the spacing is wrong, put in a joist to specifically act as a TopPlate.
You then put a SolePlate on the Floor and fill in between the TopPlate and SolePlate with Vertical Joists at 40cm or 60cm separation (aligned to match plaster board width).
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=s...qJnQAhVbOMAKHbfwAMgQ_AUICCgB&biw=1920&bih=950
I would suggest that if the soleplate is on a concrete garage floor, you put a layer of DampProofCourse between the wood and concrete to minimize any damp damaging the wood:
http://www.wickes.co.uk/search?text=damp proof course

Also, if you use a Joist as a TopPlate then the ends of your ceiling plasterboard will have nothing to screw up into (then ends of the plasterboard will flap). So you need a double (or thicker) joist there, one to act as the TopPlate and one for the Plasterboard to screw into.

sfk

 

[LaughingJon]

Thanks again, that's really useful, just one last question if I may.

If I use heavier CSL for the Top Plate and use joist hangers to support it, how would you fix the two end verticals to it, will the hangers be in the way a bit, or doesn't it matter?

Kind Regards
Jon

 

[SFK]

Jon,
The TopPlate and the Bottom plate have to be sturdy fixed: joist hangers for topplate and soleplate screwed into floor (or perhaps upside down joist hangers at a push).
The vertical studs are not holding up the TopPlate, the studs are only there to provide rigidity and hold the Plasterboard and are simply screwed or nailed onto the Top and Sole Plates.

So yes the joist hangers might be in way of left and right Studs. But not an issue as you could: attach left and right studs only onto wall, and/or pilot drill through metal joist hanger for the screw to pass through.

sfk

 

[LaughingJon]

So the Top Plate should be okay just supported on the wall using joist hangers at the top along with a few short studs linking to the smaller false ceiling joists for rigidity along it's length.

Okay SFK, thanks again for all you help, it's been very useful and I'll hopefully avoid disturbing the nasty stuff.

 

[SFK]

Jon,
I think so. But not fully sure so I have attached an image showing front section and cross section. Note that on drawing it I changed something. I have put a Top Plate under the Joist. I did this because I realized that the Joist is Vertical and the Top Plate is Horizontal.
Also note that I found the stud wall easy because all the load is vertical into the ground and so not going to collapse even with only a few screws to stop it leaning, and I used the thinner 63mm stud. The ceiling I found harder as the span and the weight of the Joists + Plasterboard + insulation adds up quickly. And if you get that wrong then it bows or worse drops.

Also I found this video is (if a bit long) good for some ideas of how to build a stud wall.

 

[LaughingJon]

That's great, thanks for your trouble so if I've got this right the main point is...

The Top Plate should be fixed to one of the new ceiling joists.

I could also add a timber overhang the top plate to screw the plasterboard into to stop any movement.

The only other problem I may have is that the boiler vent is quite close to the existing ceiling so the joist hangers will need to be quite shallow, I think there should be space though.

 

[SFK]

Jon,
Exactly (glad you can understand my poor drawing).
Timber overhang from the top plate to screw the plasterboard into to stop any movement is good, or (to save money) if you have any joist or Stud off cuts put these between the first two joists as nogings to attach the plasterboard to.
sfk

 

[LaughingJon]

That's really great, at least I have a plan now.

Thanks Very much.

 

[LaughingJon]

Got that bracket off the ceiling last night, came of nicely with a longer screw driver and plenty of WD40, no visible dust.

Looks like someone had drilled through the ceiling panel in the past, hope they wore a face mask.

I sprayed some resin based crack filler into the gap, which sealed the hole nicely.

 

[LaughingJon]

Jon,
I think so. But not fully sure so I have attached an image showing front section and cross section. Note that on drawing it I changed something. I have put a Top Plate under the Joist. I did this because I realized that the Joist is Vertical and the Top Plate is Horizontal.
Also note that I found the stud wall easy because all the load is vertical into the ground and so not going to collapse even with only a few screws to stop it leaning, and I used the thinner 63mm stud. The ceiling I found harder as the span and the weight of the Joists + Plasterboard + insulation adds up quickly. And if you get that wrong then it bows or worse drops.

Also I found this video is (if a bit long) good for some ideas of how to build a stud wall.

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