Fancy a new job?

[Roy Bloom]

Which is unlawful.

So called positive action is allowed, but that ad goes too far. Easy claim for a person who doesn’t meet the criteria.

White is just as protected as black in the equalities act.

I'm confident Tfl have taken the necessary legal advice over their advert.
The fact that you think it's unlawful is neither here nor there.

 

[Roy Bloom]

I've benefitted my whole life from being able to spell privilege.

Was that a benefit of privileged education?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I'm confident Tfl have taken the necessary legal advice over their advert.
The fact that you think it's unlawful is neither here nor there.

Always presenting law as a very simple thing.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Pot calling the kettle black from someone who’s benefitted from White privelage their whole life.

Load of bowllux, dipstick. No such thing as white privilege. You can't even spell what you've been taught to parrot by nutters like Himmass. It's down to the fact that caucasians got their fingers out and did something rather than sitting around in the sun or picking a bit of cotton. Also caucasians are obviously more suited to the modern world, on the whole. They had as much chance as whites to make a go of things, but they can't - even with the massive privileges the whites gave them in Europe, US and Africa. Soon as white man has no involvement - it all goes down the tubes. See Zimbabwe or South Africa for details.

My father was a child during WW2, father dead - living in a rented single room above a shop. Often had nothing to eat - had to take coal from cellars of bombed buildings. Then his mother died and he had to fend for himself. Joined army as a boy soldier, went to night school to get educated and ended up running his own company. No one gave him anything. So put that in your diversity pipe and smoke it.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Also caucasians are obviously more suited to the modern world, on the whole.

You can't beat a bit of white supremacy.
But you can ridicule it.

White supremacy is the belief that white people are superior to those of other races and thus should dominate them. The belief favours the maintenance and defense of any power and privilege held by white people. White supremacy has roots in the now-discredited doctrine of scientific racism and was a key justification for European colonialism.

White supremacy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And ReganandCarter claims to be educated.
Indoctrinated more like.

 

[motorbiking]

I'm confident Tfl have taken the necessary legal advice over their advert.
The fact that you think it's unlawful is neither here nor there.

What you described would be unlawful, not what they posted. You elaborated on their goals. There is a has been recent payout for pilots related to this example.

 

[Roy Bloom]

What you described would be unlawful, not what they posted. You elaborated on their goals. There is a has been recent payout for pilots related to this example.

I briefly parodied their advert. I thought it was obvious that I didn't need to explore the details. I'm sure TfL will have done that.
If and when I place such an advert, you can criticise it then.

If it's designed to offer TfL an improved view of those currently suffering negative discrimination, it's perfectly understandable, and to be applauded.
So yes, it is discriminatory, it's positive discrmination.

But I'm mindful that if a person's characteristic is specifically required to achieve operational objectives, then positive discirimination is perfectly legal:

Broadly speaking, positive discrimination is the unlawful process of favouring prospective or existing employees from a protected characteristic group. This can often arise where a job applicant or employee is given preferential treatment because they possess a protected characteristic, or is recruited or promoted specifically because of that characteristic, regardless of individual merit.

What Is Positive Discrimination? | DavidsonMorris

Employers must understand the differences between positive discrimination and positive action, and how these impact fair and lawful workplace practices and cultures.

www.davidsonmorris.com

The Tfl advert may be the result of Positive Action, rather than Positive Discrimination. Without consulting their PR department we might never know.

 

[motorbiking]

The positive discrimination itself cannot be the operational objective.

An example of an operational objective could be Indian people working in an Indian restaurant or Thai people offering a Thai massage..

If the job advert was for a proper job, TfL would be as exposed as the RAF were when they also tried to “push the boundaries of positive action”. They ended up having to compensate male white trainees who had been discriminated against on protected characteristics.

 

[Roy Bloom]

The positive discrimination itself cannot be the operational objective.

No-one suggested it was.
But let's remember that it was gant that first described it as Positive Discrimination, and we've just gone with that terminology so far.
Maybe we should give it its true terminology.

An example of an operational objective could be Indian people working in an Indian restaurant or Thai people offering a Thai massage..

Or disabled people giving TfL a disabled persons' viewpoint of travelling by public transport in London.

 

[motorbiking]

What ever. “White” is just as protected as “black”.

they try hard to make it a non job, but I suspect it would fail if a person made a complaint that they were not considered for the job on equality grounds.

This kind of racism just promotes racism and division.

 

[gant]

This kind of racism just promotes racism and division.

Course it does, instead of creating harmony that agenda 30 would have us believe it just creates division, oh look divide and rule. That's why I put who'd a thunk it after positive discrimination.

 

[Roy Bloom]

What ever. “White” is just as protected as “black”.

Of course ethnicity is a protected characteristic. But do you think that white people in general suffer disicrimination in the same way as other ethnicities?

they try hard to make it a non job, but I suspect it would fail if a person made a complaint that they were not considered for the job on equality grounds.

How are they trying to make it a "non job"?
If they are paying a bursary, not a wage, aren't they recognising it as a "study opportunity"?

Salary: A bursary of £21,824

from the OP.

This kind of racism just promotes racism and division.

They're targeting lots of 'disadvantaged' groups. e.g

• Individuals from a disadvantaged socio-economic background

"Disadvantaged background' is not a protected charatceristic.
You're concentrating on the 'ethnicity' aspect of the Positive Action, due to your own prejudice. The Positive Action encompasses a myriad of protected characerisitcs and disadvantaged groups.
In your process of emphasis on ethnicity you're losing sight of the goal of the 'job' offer, and reinforcing your primary concern with ethnicity.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Course it does, instead of creating harmony that agenda 30 would have us believe it just creates division, oh look divide and rule. That's why I put who'd a thunk it after positive discrimination.

Is that why you mis-labled it?
It's Positive Action, not Positive Discrimination.
There's a difference. A minimal difference in reality, but a massive legal difference.

Postive Action tries to offer opportunities for ambitious and capable people from disadvantaged groups. just like scholarhips offer gifted people additional opportunities in many academic circles.
How does that create division?

What is this agenda 30 that you refer to?

 

[motorbiking]

Of course ethnicity is a protected characteristic. But do you think that white people in general suffer disicrimination in the same way as other ethnicities?

As mentioned earlier there is no concept of "positive" discrimination. It's just unlawful discrimination.

From TFL's diversity and inclusion data, they don't even have an argument for "positive action/discrimination".. But you could argue thats because of schemes like this.

"At TfL, 32.4 per cent of our workforce is from a Black, Asian or minority ethnic background. This is in comparison to London, where this figure is 43 per cent, with 36 per cent of economically active Londoners coming from Black, Asian or minority ethnic communities."

How are they trying to make it a "non job"?
If they are paying a bursary, not a wage, aren't they recognising it as a "study opportunity"?

I think this is where they may come unstuck. It looks like they have suffered "group" contributor syndrome. one person creates the bursary, another the job description and someone else the opportunity statement. Linking them all together is problematic. There is a strong indication that not only will white non-disabled males not be able to win the role, but that the successful applicant will be fast tracked.

They're targeting lots of 'disadvantaged' groups. e.g

• Individuals from a disadvantaged socio-economic background

"Disadvantaged background' is not a protected charatceristic.
You're concentrating on the 'ethnicity' aspect of the Positive Action, due to your own prejudice. The Positive Action encompasses a myriad of protected characerisitcs and disadvantaged groups.
In your process of emphasis on ethnicity you're losing sight of the goal of the 'job' offer, and reinforcing your primary concern with ethnicity.

Just when I thought you'd be up for reasonable debate, you're back with the allegations again.

I make no judgement on the goal or merit, simply that it is unlawful to discriminate against anyone's protected characteristics

 

[Roy Bloom]

As mentioned earlier there is no concept of "positive" discrimination. It's just unlawful discrimination.

Positive discrimination is allowable in cases of disability.

Under the Equality Act 2010, an employer can lawfully treat job applicants or employees who are disabled more favourably because of their disability than non-disabled candidates or employees.

What Is Positive Discrimination? | DavidsonMorris

Employers must understand the differences between positive discrimination and positive action, and how these impact fair and lawful workplace practices and cultures.

www.davidsonmorris.com

There other cases when positive discrimination is lawful, as you mentioned earlier.
But the more modern definition of Positive Discrimination has come to mean unfair or unequal discrimination.
Originally (prior to 2010) it related to equally qualified and suitable applicant being given preference based on their protected characteristic.
This is what Positive Action has now come to reflect, but perhaps gone further.

From TFL's diversity and inclusion data, they don't even have an argument for "positive action/discrimination".. But you could argue thats because of schemes like this.

"At TfL, 32.4 per cent of our workforce is from a Black, Asian or minority ethnic background. This is in comparison to London, where this figure is 43 per cent, with 36 per cent of economically active Londoners coming from Black, Asian or minority ethnic communities."

You've just refuted your own argument.
it's perfectly acceptable to untilise Positive Action so that your workforce reflects your customer base.

I think this is where they may come unstuck. It looks like they have suffered "group" contributor syndrome. one person creates the bursary, another the job description and someone else the opportunity statement. Linking them all together is problematic. There is a strong indication that not only will white non-disabled males not be able to win the role, but that the successful applicant will be fast tracked.

Entry requirements:

• From Black, Asian or other minority ethnic backgrounds and/or
• People with a disability (as defined by the Equality Act 2010) and/or
• Individuals from a disadvantaged socio-economic background
• A graduate with, or an undergraduate on track to achieve, a minimum 2:2 in any degree, or
• A non-graduate with no more than one year’s paid experience in the communications industry such as public relations, public affairs, marketing, stakeholder engagement, media, or other related fields.

From the OP
Your emphasis on ethnicity is evident yet again. There is only one category that your criteria would fit, and there are two other categories.
So the white male applicant has a 2 out of 3 chance of being successful.
Of course the successful candidate will be fast tracked, that's the idea of the scheme.

Just when I thought you'd be up for reasonable debate, you're back with the allegations again.

Just an observation, and not intended to be insulting. Quite the reverse, it might encourage some introspection.

I make no judgement on the goal or merit, simply that it is unlawful to discriminate against anyone's protected characteristics

Not all discrimination is unlawful.
A highly qualified male would be discarded for an unqualified female in a women's refuge.
But that's not discrimination against a protected characteristic, that's discrimination because of a protected characteristic.