Fernox F1 Omega and no inhibitor?

[alba2]

I have just discovered that a Spirotech MB3 filter I had fitted was installed wrongly.
It was fitted on the flow pipe rather than the return.
The system is 5 years old and after 5 annual services only the latest Viessmann c.h. engineer noticed it. He specialises in Viessmann and really seems to know his stuff.
Instead of just re positioning the S.MB3 he recommends replacing it with the Fernox TF1 Omega on the return.
In addition he recommends a mains water flush because we have black water which previous c.h.engineers said was not a problem, so we left it alone.
Our water is very soft with no residue in our kettle etc. The p.h. is about 7.3.
He recommends as per Viessmann's instructions that we don't dose the system with inhibitor. He leads by example because he does not dose his own system and said he has never had a problem.
What do you think about no inhibitor, and the replacement of the S.M.B.3 with the Fernox TF1 Omega filter?

 

[JohnD]

Does your boiler have a pressure gauge?

 

[ScottishGasMan]

The Spirotec MB3 Filter In my opinion is the best on the market. (people will have very heated debates regarding these things) While Fernox are the leader in chemicals for heating systems they are by a long way not experts in filters, Spirotec specialise in Hydraulics and filtration/deairation.

So Id recommend when it comes to flushing that you keep the Spirotec and fit it on the return. If your going to go with the advice of no inhibitor then take the money you would have spent on a Fernox omega and buy a "Spirotec Spirovent" and put it on the flow where the filter currently is, without inhibitor there is no ongoing protection for your heating system from corrosion, the Spirovent helps release dissolved gasses and air from the system which certainly can help towards reducing the amount of corrosion that can take place due to the effects of oxygen and carbon dioxide in the water.

 

[alba2]

Thanks for the replies.

The Viessmann Vitodens 100 has a built in pressure gauge.

I wasn't aware of a Spirotech Spirovent although when the system was first installed I was aware that the Germans utilise some form of deoxygenation system with their Viessmann boilers rather than using inhibitor.
It sounds like a good idea. I looked for some info on how beneficial it is but there is very little feedback. I came across a piece of university research on dearators generally. It was about heating savings, but apparently this was really minimal.
The bottom line.......is it worth the cost?
Do you believe that they are really beneficial in preventing corrosion in the absence of inhibitor?
Would it fit right into the Spirotech gap (after removal) without adjustment?

 

[ScottishGasMan]

Do you believe that they are really beneficial in preventing corrosion in the absence of inhibitor?

There not going to replace inhibitor or prevent corrosion, they will help remove gasses from the system which will "reduce" corrosion in the system.

One point to note that a lot of people seem to skip over, is that while Germans don't use inhibitor, they also don't fill their systems with tap water. They use special filling machines that purify the water going into the system to significantly reduce the conductivity of water in order to prevent galvanic corrosion in the system, which nothing other than inhibitor is going to do in a UK system without access to these filling systems.

Personally I just use inhibitor. I dont have a Veismaan but i do have a german boiler.

As to the Positions of the spirotec, Im 99% sure there the exact same threads and sizes so can swap over with no hasstle, and will only benifit the system.

 

[alba2]

Hi ScottishGasMan. I have bought the Spirovent RV2 and am awaiting delivery. However, since buying I have looked at other Spirovent threads and someone said they stopped installing them because 80% of them leak. Have you found that they leak? I am a little bit worried that I may have made a wrong decision.

 

[ScottishGasMan]

Never seen any spirotech product leak

 

[alba2]

Thanks for your quick reply. I have the Spirotech MB3 filter and it has never leaked. I hope that the Spirovent is as good in that respect. I suppose with an air valve that opens and closes to the outside there is more of a potential for that, unlike the closed Spirotech.

 

[ScottishGasMan]

Any air vent like that has the potential to leak, most can be cleaned and sorted out if needed, but most will only leak if there is a lot of dirt getting into them, the fact that the float sits so high away from the water flow in the spirotec means the system would have to be really dirty to cause it problems.

 

[alba2]

Thanks for your reply. It seems sensible.
I probably should not say this, because I know you are a Spirotech MB3 fan. The engineer has persuaded me to replace the MB3 with the Fernox TF1 Omega filter. I was persuaded because some online reviews and engineers did say that the MB3 was not that effective. I also saw some videos where filters like the Magnaclean showed much more ferrite removed with their internal magnet like the TF1 now has. When I chose the MB3 5 years ago the alternatives were essentially plastic and some leaked. The MB3 with a brass body seemed more suitable. Now that the TF1 has a brass body with an internal magnet it seems to be potentially more effective than the MB3 with an external magnet that was apparently added for the UK market as an afterthought.
Due to the fact of the MB3 being installed incorrectly on the outflow from the boiler, this may be the point to try a potentially more effective replacement, albeit at an extra cost of course.
You have persuaded me to consider adding the Spirovent to the system and as I want to minimise future problems I am prepared to incorporate that cleaning method also. Here's hoping that all the extra cost is worth it, and a trouble free system results.
I don't know why but even though the system is only 5 years old and had inhibitor added in conjunction with the MB3, the water has been inky black from the beginning. There has not been any leaks or frequent water to ups. I have been adding a very brief spurt of water about twice a year, which I think is the norm, to keep the boiler pressure bang on the line.
A previous c.h. service engineer said that he could feel and smell the inhibitor, and that inky black water was not a problem, and that his system was the same. Yet everything I have read has said that black water is a problem!
The latest service engineer who was the first out of 4 engineers who spotted the MB3 was incorrectly plumbed on the flow, despite it being directly in view, is a Viessmann specialist and he tells me he never adds inhibitor to his own system and has never had a problem. He seems very efficient and knows his stuff as a purely Viessmann engineer so has convinced me I should do likewise. He didn't mention the requirement for a Spirovent deaerator, and I am going with your advice as a belt and braces approach to keeping the water clean, in conjunction with the TF1.
Thanks for this advice. I try to stay on top of things but was not aware of the Spirovent.
Incidentally I note that Spirotech have produced a new filter, but I don't think it is quite available yet.