Fiat Scudo Van - Broken Front Spring

[woodbine]

The front drivers side spring has mysteriously broken over night and wedged itself against the inner wall of the tyre. It's a Macpherson with shock inside the spring in one unit. It's an old shape Scudo 2004 2.0JTD.

When one spring is broken, is it normal practice to change both front springs? Should I go for Fiat parts, or is there a cheaper but reliable brand of springs?

Is this a reasonably simple DIY swap I can do on my drive, or best in a garage? Moving it will be a problem with the spring hard up against the tyre's wall.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Burnerman]

No need to change both springs....I used to do so but there's no guarantee that the remaining spring is going to go, and the ride height won't be affected.
The ease of the job depends on whether the strut is bolted onto the hub.....if it is, it's easy enough but if the strut is inserted into the hub and clamped then it's a little more difficult.
For sure, you need spring compressors to do this one - essential tools.
John

 

[Burnerman]

No need to replace the other spring, although I used to do so....there's no guarantee that the good spring is about to fail and the ride height won't be affected. Springs can be bought at any motor factors.
Replacement is easy enough, especially if the strut is bolted onto the hub - it's a little more complicated if the strut fits into a clamped socket on the hub.
You must use spring compressors here, and shift the wheel as soon as you can as it's common for the tyre to be punctured.
John

 

[Burnerman]

Sorry - thought I'd lost that post so wrote it again
John

 

[woodbine]

Thanks for your reply John. Looks like there are just two bolts holding the bottom of strut to the back of the hub, not clamped. As for the top bolts, I'm a little less sure. Under the bonnet, the tops of the struts are very bad for access. I'm thinking that the the tops of the struts unbolt from from underneath, ie. up inside the wing. Would this make sense? If I look up inside the wing to the top of the strut, there are two bolts that look like they secure the top of strut up inside wing, and two pointed studs that are also there to help locate the strut in the wing.

So, is it likely that the top of the strut unbolts from under the inner wing due to poor access inside engine bay?

Also, where would be the best place to buy a spring? Should I go to main dealer, or is there a reliable (cheaper) alternative online? I looked on Ebay, but as it's a safety related part, don't want to buy a fake? What brands are reliable?

 

[Burnerman]

Conventionally the strut tops are bolted in from within the engine bay, using two or three bolts. It's quite possible that they unbolt from underneath though, and you'll see bolt heads plus the pointed locators. Can you give us a pic of both locations?
Anyway, other things to consider.....the struts incorporate a bearing to allow them to swivel with the steering and this may need replacing, depending on the age and mileage - no one can tell until the spring is off.
Another thing, the internal strut needs to be held from rotating as the large top nut is undone. A simple method is to use an impact wrench, but sometimes an Allen key or Torx key is needed to hold things.
There's probably some info on YouTube about this.
As for a replacement I just use what's given but Lesforjors is a good one.
John

 

[woodbine]

Thanks again John. Much appreciated.

This is the view looking up inside the wing to top of strut. There is a bolt to the right, and you can just make out a stud to the left of the bolt - in the middle between the hole and bolt. There is also a stud and bolt to the rear of the plate.

DSC01285

• woodbine
• 14 Feb 2017

This is the bottom of the strut showing the two bolts that hold it to rear of hub.

DSC01280

• woodbine
• 14 Feb 2017

Also, where is a good place to look for the correct torque settings?

 

[Burnerman]

Most welcome and thanks for the pics!
Top pic - I'd use a hexagon socket on there after giving it a good spray and clean with penetrating oil......for sure you don't want it to round off! Slacken both but dont remove them yet.
Bottom pic - they look like 17 or 19mm bolts with 10 or 12mm threads - they'll come out without too much trouble.
After this the entire strut should be loose and you can pull it clear.
As for torque settings...well....the top bolts seem to be 8mm so wind them up tight without swinging on the wrench. The bottom ones can take a bit more heaving. Sorry I don't have the correct settings but none of these bolts are torque sensitive so I wouldn't worry too much!
John

 

[woodbine]

OK. Will give it a go. Good idea on the hexagon socket. I have some impact sockets, which I believe are hex, so will use these. Can't imagine what a mare it would be to round them off those top bolts - or even shear the bolt!!

Yes, bottom bolts are 18mm, though the top one was fine, the bottom one caused my only (cheapo) 18mm socket to explode. Was just loosening them to see how difficult they are. Will purchase new, quality socket.

Let you know how I get on.

Ian

 

[woodbine]

Have ordered the part, but have another question before I strip things down. You mentioned that the bearing in the strut may need replacing. How do I check the bearing to see if it's worn? The vehicle is 13 years old with just over 90,000 miles. The suspension was fine before spring broke with no bumps or other noises.

Ordered a Monroe spring in the end. Fiat dealer wanted £125 plus VAT for one spring, and a week's wait whilst it made it's way from Italy.

 

[Burnerman]

The bearing sits between the top of the spring and the underside of the strut top and it can be in a few forms, such as a ball race or an entire plate that the spring sits in - there's no way of knowing until the strut is stripped. I honestly wouldn't worry, there's every chance that all will be fine anyway and in any case, whoever supplied the spring should be able to provide the bearing too.
Monroe is an excellent make, doing many suspension components and I'd expect to pay between £40 and £50 near enough for a spring.
Have you some spring compressors standing by? Its recommended that three are used these days.
John

 

[Burnerman]

.

 

[woodbine]

I'll leave the bearing then, as I wouldn't know how to check it. If it fails in the future, the strut will just have to come out again. Not a difficult job - only 4 bolts. Took it off today and took old spring off strut. Hopefully the new one should arrive tomorrow.

I have compressors - but alas only a pair. They're heavy duty, extra long ones for vans, so should be ok. Will just take sensible precautions, like not having my head over the end of it when compressed.

 

[Burnerman]

Excellent progress!
You'll probably be amazed how much the new spring has to be compressed but worry ye not, they can cope with it.
Often enough I place the compressors so one jaw grips the strut plate and the other fixes near to the top of the spring which gives me enough compression to reassemble the strut.
Hope it goes well!
John

 

[woodbine]

Well, I compressed the new spring and successfully fixed it to the strut. Had to reduce spring length from approx. 16" to approx. 10". To do this, I wound down the compressors to as far as physically possible with normal ratchets. If I had needed to reduce the spring length any further, it would have been very difficult without something like a breaker bar.

Now I have hit a problem putting the unit back on the vehicle. The bottom of the strut is catching on the top of the driveshaft (on outer/hub CV joint boot) which is stopping me having the strut at the right angle (ie. vertical) to be able to bolt the struts top plate up inside the wing. It's almost there but fouls on the CV joint boot behind hub. Also the 2 bottom locating holes on strut that bolt it to the back of the hub seem a bit lower than the holes on the hub. I have disconnected the end of the track rod end to give me extra working room. Looks likw I need to bear down on the hub a bit to allow the strut to be vertical and also for the bottom two strut bolt holes to line up with the ones on the hub.

My question is, how much downward pressure can I put on the hub to help things fit and line up, without damaging CVs/drive shafts ot their rubber boots? It's nearly there, but I don't want to damage things.