Fire Doors, Bi-Folding options, Self closing requirements?

[purplemonkey]

hi there,

just trying to find a solution for a smallish kitchen in my flat conversion. Does anyone know if its possible to get a bi fold glazed fire door? if not could a glazed fire door be cut in half to create a bi-fold door?

Also do all these internal fire doors need self-closing mechs?

cheers
t.

 

[chappers]

Depends under what requirements, for say a loft conversion no requirements for self closers anymore on the escape route, as to whether a bifold would conform would depend on the glazing and probably intumescent protection on the doors

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I cannot see a bi-fold glazed fire door being available, you can't even cut a glazed fire door in half. Once you chop up a fire door it loses its integrity (and legality).

 

[Nakajo]

I doubt that there is such a thing as a bifold fire door - although I expect such a thing could be bespoke manufactured (at huge expense). An AI/BCO is unlikely to require self-closers except in exceptional circumstances. Smoke seals and BS compliant sensors/alarms are a must. You might also take a look at mist fire suppression systems. Probably too expensive for this project, but equally, cheaper than you might think. With the agreement of an AI, these systems *can* remove the need for doors in certain instances.

 

[wessex101]

I looked into something similar albeit in a non residential property and after extensive searches I couldn't find anything. The nearest I got was a sliding fire door but obviously without the closer.

I often wonder how much use a fire door in this situation would be as probably 90% of the time it would be left wide open. I would be inclined to have a good mains smoke detector fitted in the main escape route and a linked heat detector in the kitchen. That will give you enough warning to get out in a fire.

 

[tony1851]

One of my AIs says we can dispense with fire doors completely (eg when doing loft conversions) if there are linked smoke detectors in each room and hall/landing

 

[chappers]

One of my AIs says we can dispense with fire doors completely (eg when doing loft conversions) if there are linked smoke detectors in each room and hall/landing

My local authority won't allow this anymore, something to do with the deaf.

 

[tony1851]

One of my AIs says we can dispense with fire doors completely (eg when doing loft conversions) if there are linked smoke detectors in each room and hall/landing

My local authority won't allow this anymore, something to do with the deaf.

I can't see the logic of that.

Whether you have no fire doors and alarms everywhere, or fire doors + alarms only on circulation routes, it someone's deaf, they're not going to hear them anyway.

 

[^woody^]

One of my AIs says we can dispense with fire doors completely (eg when doing loft conversions) if there are linked smoke detectors in each room and hall/landing

My local authority won't allow this anymore, something to do with the deaf.

I can't see the logic of that.

Whether you have no fire doors and alarms everywhere, or fire doors + alarms only on circulation routes, it someone's deaf, they're not going to hear them anyway.

You don't just fit "alarms" or "smoke detectors".

You fit a system to one of the grades defined in BS5839 part 1. This will determine what detection and warning devices are needed. In this situation, strobes and pillow vibrators would deal with people who are hard of hearing.

It is risk based as to whether alarms can replace doors.

 

[chappers]

Don't tell me I have argued until I am blue in the face using both arguments. Last loft conversion I did 3 months ago this was perfectly acceptable. The one I am currently doing on my own house it suddenly isn't. I have argued that we would be willing to fit a system with strobes that was capable of having pillow vibrators added to the system at a later date, but the comeback was what if you had a deaf guest, my response was I would wake them up, they came back with what if you couldn't get to them because of the fire. ye gods I was just about to give up when they said I could use intumescent paint on my existing 33mm victorian panel doors, but they didn't care that some of the doorstops couldn't be upgraded or that some of the doors weren't a great fit.
Either way I have extended the alarm system to all habitable rooms and will decide whether to pull a fast one on the intumescent paint or not, all they want is a copy of the package insert to say the paint complies with building regs.
It beggars belief that they won't accept a system that can easily be seen and tested upon inspection but are happy to go with what I would consider a work around which has many more failings, (primarily what happens if the doors aren't shut in the event of a fire) are they going to stand there and make sure I have painted each door with the intumescent undercoat.