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Fire Regs (the duplicate has now been locked)

Discussion in 'Building Regulations and Planning Permission' started by hard-work, 14 Jul 2016.

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  1. tony1851

    tony1851

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    I'm not sure you understand the regs. regarding flats. You are only looking at one component of the problem - you have to consider the
    communal areas as well when considering escape from flats. Read further on in the guidance, para 2.19 onwards (Means of escape from common areas).

    Say one of your neighbours on the same floor removed the fire door from their kitchen. Say also that their flat entrance door is not fitting well (eg damaged smoke seal or whatever). There is a fire caused by his faulty tumble drier at 2am; within a short time, toxic smoke fills the lobby and the staircase; what would YOUR chances of getting out be?
     
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  3. endecotp

    endecotp

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    That layout is common, but would not be allowed if the block were being built today. I don't know why you think it is beneficial - compared to what?
     
  4. hard-work

    hard-work

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    The furthest point to the front door is a tad under 9m direct with a fire door between - kitchen under 6m with no fire door. All points that the kitchen door can be removed.
     
    Last edited: 16 Jul 2016
  5. hard-work

    hard-work

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    The staircase is inside the block but open to atmosphere - not enclosed. All fireproof masonry. It would be allowed today. Smoke can billow out to atmosphere. People can run up or down, to other landings and along to other stairs. The best. Many points of exit from the building. No doors at the bottom of the staircases.
     
    Last edited: 16 Jul 2016
  6. tony1851

    tony1851

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    No, it doesn't - you are looking at your flat in isolation.
     
  7. hard-work

    hard-work

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    Read my post on the staircases. The best. That is not an issue. Only the internals of the flat are an issue. I conform to the points I raised on pages 22 and 23. Agree?
     
  8. hard-work

    hard-work

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    I am looking at my flat, not one over the road or next door. :) You have doubts. Can you be specific and point to where your doubts are?
     
  9. hard-work

    hard-work

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    The external staircases are not an issue. They are the best at escape and fire protection.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...chment_data/file/441669/BR_PDF_AD_B2_2013.pdf
    Here its is again, added to a little...

    Page 22 section 2.3, provisions for flat above 4.5m above ground level. It give THREE approaches to choose from.

    Page 23 second choice, b). It points to diagram 3. Diagram 3 gives two layouts, One has no entrance hall to the flat. That is very clear.
    Choice b) makes three points:

    1. Must less than 9 metres from flats entrance door to the furthest point in the habitable rooms.
    2. The cooking facilities must be remote at the far end of the kitchen.
    3. The cooking facilities must not prejudice an escape route from any point in the flat.

    In my case:

    1. the further point in a habitable room is just within 9 metres to the entrance door of the flat - the kitchen is about 6 metres at most.
    2. The cooking facilities are remote at the far end of the kitchen.
    3. The cooking facilities do not prejudice an escape route from any point in the flat.

    These are advantages, only that:
    The cooking facilities are near an opening window onto an open masonry landing to atmosphere.
    The open stone stairs outside are not an issue and not a restriction in case of fire and are greatly beneficial.
     
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  11. bernardgreen

    bernardgreen

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    Unless your bed is in the open plan area ( ie not in a bedroom with a door to the hall ) then diagram 3 does NOT apply to your case. Diagram 3 applies when ther are no internal doors ( except for bath room / toilet area )

    protected hall.jpg

    Note the words "protected hall".....

    Still you do what ever you want and hope you never have a fire.
     
  12. hard-work

    hard-work

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    bernardgreen. there are THREE choices: a), b) or c) as shown in your pic. Diagram 2 applies to choice a) and diagram 3 applies to choice b). Take your pick. I chose b), which diagram 3 applies to. Diagram 3 is regarding restricted travel (a door between) to the front door. The second sketch in Diagram 3 shows the doors.

    Your interpretation is not stated in any of those wordings.

    Suppose I take all my doors off except for the bathroom. I fully conform to the layout in diagram 3. Having a fire door between the hall and some rooms will not make matters worse.

    I will not do as I like. I will conform to the building regs. That is my idea. So far my original intention is covered by the regs
     
    Last edited: 16 Jul 2016
  13. endecotp

    endecotp

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    You've made up your mind; there's no point saying any more.
     
  14. hard-work

    hard-work

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    I have nearly made up my mind reading the document. Point to any text in that document that says I am wrong. I will look again. You may be right. Bernardgreen read it. I looked at his interpretation and found he was not right, explaining where he was wrong putting him right. I am not interested in opinion only fact. Again, point to where it says I am wrong. I want to conform, not go on opinion. I am not into one-upmanship.
     
    Last edited: 17 Jul 2016
  15. bernardgreen

    bernardgreen

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    I prefer to listen to people who know what they are talking about. For example Fire Prevention Officers ( prevent fire ) and Family Liason Officers ( inform people their loved ones have perished in a fire ).

    Of course you own the flat, you would have to get the landlord to agree with you removing the door if you were renting.

    As you ( apparently ) own the flat then you will need to inform your insurance company about removing the door.
     
  16. tony1851

    tony1851

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    If your block is the old type of tenement block, with open staircases such as this one, then you might be OK as long as any flat door opening on to the staircase has a fire door.
    The problem with the Approved Doc is that it seems to assume that stairs to flats are enclosed; if they are open and the chance of smoke build-up is far less, they are probably equivalent to external escape stairs.
    It will be down to risk assessment, as woody pointed out. So far as your internal layout only is concerned, you almost certainly comply, if this type of staircase is accepted as providing adequate safe space (ie equivalent to being in the open air).
    cap victoria sq.PNG
     
    Last edited: 16 Jul 2016
  17. hard-work

    hard-work

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    bernard, again opinion. I want to know the regs on it - facts.
     
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