Fitting a new light with fan

[Dr Pete]

What are you doing with the Yellow wire that comes out of the ceiling ?

The yellow (with red) I've thought is the live so attached to that (which is noted in the instructions as being the return from wall switch)

In my original message I've noted it as being red, as there are no yellow cables.

Can you be a bit clearer on what you mean by 'Blue (with Red)' and 'Yellow (with Red)'

Sorry, Yellow (with red) - the cable is yellow, but it has a layer of red plastic attached around it from where it splits from the main cable.

 

[securespark]

If only you had mentioned in your first post that you had a 3 core and earth with red, yellow and blue cores at the ceiling.

I can't quite decipher your diagrams, but it sounds like you have 2 x 2 gang switches with a twin and earth feed at one position, plus 2 3-cores, and two 3 cores at the other position.

Can you post pictures of

a: the wires at the ceiling position

b: the wires at the switches?

take great care not to detach any wires from any terminals...


What are these instructions you mention??

 

[Dr Pete]

If only you had mentioned in your first post that you had a 3 core and earth with red, yellow and blue cores at the ceiling.

Sorry

Can you post pictures of

I don't have a camera, is there a way I can describe the cables to you? Sorry you can't decipher my diagrams... I tried!

 

[jtaunton]

On things like the 'Switch 1' diagram, can you say whether each red comes from cable A, B, or C, for example..... Giving each core a number, and then telling us where on the switch it goes might help (or might make it hopelessly confusing, but we'll see......)

 

[mapj1]

the minimum effort assumption, based on the digrams is
At the ceiling,
the 2+E (red black and bare sleeved as earth) are power (unswitched) in from the supply and on to another light fitting.

The other wire, 3+e (red, yellow blue and bare sleeved as earth) with some cores sleeved as red
probably goes to the first 2 way switch.

The first to way switch has the 3+e from the fitting to it, and a pair of 3+E to the second switch.

Does that look mechanically like it was the 'easy option' for the installer, given the layout? If not then what follows, based on that assumption is not going to be true.

i think what you have is 2 separate 2-way circuits, using the A sides of the switches for one circuit, and the B sides for the other. Then, the 3 plus E is used to get from the switch to the ceiling rose with live (red) from rose to switches and switched live (circuit A) on blue and switched live circuit B on yellow.
To be sure, we need to give the 3 identical 3 and E's at the swithc one names like 'to cieling', 'A circuit' and 'B circuit' and at the 2nd switch ' A circuit' and 'B circuit'From your drawing it is not possible to be sure, but
i jhave assumed that the red/blue/yellow from the same cable go to thee same side (a or B) of a given switch.

The other question. Before you took it down, did both 'left hand' (or right hand) sides of the two double switch control that lamp, and what did (or do) the other sides control? - if 'nothing' it may be that circuit (A or B) was always floating, but an option for a fitting with more than one lamp for dim/bright/really bright options.

we are part way there.

 

[Dr Pete]

mapj1, phew, that sounds a bit complicated to me

Switch 1 is when you first come in to the house. One switch is for the outside light, the other is the mainroom light (which is the one I'm changing).

Switch 2 is by the stairs, one switch is for a light upstairs (which is on another circuit). The other switch is for the mainroom light.

jtaunton: I'm not sure I can say which red comes from which cable because it's impossible to see which direction the cables are going in by looking through the wall hole.

Also, are any of the lights on the circuit going to work, even if its connected properly if I've not connected the fan wires to the connector on the mounting bracket?

 

[securespark]

If the assumption that the two t & e cables at the ceiling are power in and out is correct, then connecting these through will provide power to the rest of the circuit, but obviously not the light in that room.

map, your theory nearly made it, but you say at one switch position there could be the 3 core from the fitting, plus two 3c +e going out.

This cannot be: one switch has 2 x 3c+e and the other just 2 x 3c+e....


Right. This is what I think......

The switch with the twin & earth in is the one that does the outside light, and the room light in question, the t & e being the switch and feed for the outside light.

The other switch is the one that does the stairs and the room light.

One 3 core is for the stairs (different circuit) and the other for the room light.

The 3core from the ceiling drops off at switch with the t&e in it. The other 3c & e links the two switch positions.

The Doc did say that the blue was dead, so let's assume the blue of the 3 core at the ceiling is unused. The live & switch (red & yellow of the ceiling three core) goto the switch on L1 and L2, along with the yellow and blue of the 3 core linking the switches. That leaves the reds of the 3core link to goto their respective Common terms.

Could that be it?

If the Doc could confirm if all blue wires are terminated at the switch positions????

It may be the guy had miles of 3c and no T&E, so used 3c for the switch drop......

 

[securespark]

With the blue disconnected, the light did not switch on or off, neither did any of the other lights on the circuit work.

Just gone back to one of you previous answers.

Did none of the other lights on the same circuit work even with the t&e cables at the ceiling joined up?

Could the mcb or fuse have tripped?

In your description for switch one, there are more reds in the terminals than there are coming out of the wall. And you only have one Blue terminated in the switch. Does that mean the other is indeed not connected?

 

[mapj1]

OK, now we know that the other sides of the switches are on independant circuits, and really we have 3 lights to consider I side with SS.

So, all reds together, but no connection to new fitting.
all blacks together, and to neutral of new fitting.

BUT I think there is an error in your descripion of switch one, where does the black wire go, and you seem to have 2 many reds.

To aid understanding realise that each switch has 2 independant sides, A and B each with 3 terminals, 2 are fixed, and a common slider that connects either to one or the other depending on the position of the rocker. (so A comm connects to A1 when up, and A2 when down, or the reverse. Note that "up" and "down" change meaning depending on the side, as to save contact space the two sides of the switch are mounted '69')

yellow to live of new fitting.

keep Blue out of the way.

or maybe not - let us know what happens next - it is most important to know which or the reds in the switch relate to which cable. Give them arbitry names if you must, but so we know which blue and which yellow and which red are coming from the same place - even if its not too clear which place, we can then probably work that from what that side left or right of the switch controls.

 

[securespark]

As I said, map, I reckon it is the live & switchwire for the outside light (1 way).

 

[ban-all-sheds]

GO AND BUY A MULTIMETER AND WORK OUT WHICH CORES ARE LIVE, WHICH ARE SWITCHED, AND WHERE THEY ALL GO.

 

[nstreet]

Can you be a bit clearer on what you mean by 'Blue (with Red)' and 'Yellow (with Red)'

Bit of red tape or sleeving would be my guess.

 

[Dr Pete]

Hi peeps

I thought I'd give you an update,

Due to this project becoming so complicated I done what I felt was the right thing and contacted an electrician!

I heard he was there for some time, but it's all in working order now and there are a houseful of happy (cooled) people.

When I speak to my friends, I'll find out what was non-standard about the wiring and post back on here for your reference.

Thanks for everyone who helped out, I appreciate your time!