fitting-less joints in gas supply

[johnnie888]

Hi All,

I've a question for gas safe engineers please.

Just had a boiler service and the engineer nearly cut my supply and issued an ID because he found a "socket-formed" capillary soldered joint in the gas supply. (BTW I'm not sure if I have the correct name for this joint, but basically where you widened the end of a copper pipe using a "socket former" which can then be pushed over a pipe of the same size and soldered). He said only slip on copper fittings were permitted in gas pipework. As the "socket-formed" joint was installed by a previous gas safe engineer, I'm wondering if these fittings are indeed dangerous and illegal as suggested by the current gas service engineer.

 

[Dan Robinson]

IIRC they are fine as long as they are made properly.

 

[algas]

Iv'e made hundreds of this type of joint in the past & I think they are safer than a bought socket as there is only one soldered joint to leak, he's being a bit of a knoob.

 

[45yearsagasman]

Expanded joint, and just as good and cheaper than end feed. Oh I should add IMO. Show me the reg that says you can't use them. It's not common practice though.

 

[DP]

Probably a young wipper snapper who has never seen such a joint.

 

[RickMoore]

If it's been made properly nothing wrong with making a join that way IMO. Stronger than using a coupler.

 

[ianmcd]

Afraid your engineer is talking absolute crap

 

[johnnie888]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I've since spoken to the original gas installer for the boiler, plus the gas board who came to fix the low pressure at my meter (17mb) today, and they all say these socket joints are fine too. The general consensus was the gas safe engineer who serviced my boiler today was trying for business by getting me to replace the gas pipework from the meter to the boiler.

In the end he left me with an "At risk" notice saying there was a 2.5 Mbar fall in pressure over the length of the internal pipework, and that the pipework was inadequate. He wanted put 28mm all the way to the boiler (currently it is 28mm for about 4m, and 22mm for the remainding 8-10m up to the boiler). However, is this really "At risk", also considering that he measured the 2.5Mbar drop at a working pressure of 17Mbar at the meter (I did have low pressure at the meter which the gas board is now fixing), and not the correct working pressure of around 20Mbar? I assume the drop in pressure would be less at higher working pressures, although not sure on this I must say!

 

[RickMoore]

2.5 mbar drop is massive on those pipe sizes. How big is the boiler and are their any other appliances that need to be taken into account ?

 

[johnnie888]

Hi Rick,

Boiler is vaillant ecotec 831. (DHW = 31kw; heating 24kw). Currently its the only appliance is the house. There was a gas cooker which I asked the service engineer to disconnect today as I am moving the kitchen. I do intend to have a new gas cooker in the new kitchen at some stage.

To update the gas board now has 19 Mbar at meter, dropping to 14 on initial start up of the boiler. Tomorrow they will replace the 16mm supply pipe into my property hopefully giving me 21 mbar at the meter. I guess that should give me sufficient pressure at the boiler even if there was a pressure drop of 2.5mbar on the internal pipework.

 

[CBF]

where did he test the pressure at the boiler ?

 

[Dan Robinson]

Nice to see engineers keeping abreast of manufacturer product updates

 

[Agile]

I agree that socket joints are actually stronger and safer than couplings.

However, since they are made by the installer, it is my view that they are not permitted as they are not "manufactured for use on gas".

It would be interesting to know what attitude Gas Safe takes!

Anyone asked them?

Tony

 

[Dan Robinson]

Yes. And my answer was based on that.

 

[sooey]

I agree that socket joints are actually stronger and safer than couplings.

However, since they are made by the installer, it is my view that they are not permitted as they are not "manufactured for use on gas".

It would be interesting to know what attitude Gas Safe takes!

Anyone asked them?

Tony

A couple of years ago I fitted a boiler in my local gas safe inspectors house , he had a lot to do and only a couple of days so asked me to give him a hand.
Anyway he had a socket formed joint on his gas pipe and wasn't too bothered about it.