Fitting replacement wall lights that have two way switches

[wilder]

Hi, I have looked (honestly!) but I can't find the answer to my query anywhere on the site, although it is probably there somewhere!

My daughter has asked me to wire new wall lights in her hall. I did not take the old lights down, and the person who did can't remember how the wires went. Basically, sticking out of the wall are two red wires (one with a much looser red sleeve than the other, but a bare copper wire within it) and one black wire. On the light fitting are the usual green/yellow, brown and blue wires.

As I understand it, the black wire goes into a terminal joining it to the blue wire on the light fitting, and both of the red wires go into a terminal joining them to the brown wire on the light fitting. Is this correct, and if so what do I do with the earth wire on the light fitting? The light fitting has a metal back plate with a curved glass front.

My daughter still has the old light fittings, and all three wires go into terminal blocks, so presumably the earth was connected to something?

As I say, I have looked at the diagrams etc on Wiki, but can't seem to find one that exactly represents the above.

Hope someone can help.[/img]

 

[Steve3948]

Sounds like someone has put red sleeve over the earth wire, maybe because they did not have any green/yellow ???

You need to trace out the red over sleeved conductor and see if it is in fact the earth at the ceiling light.

 

[wilder]

There isn't a ceiling light, only the two wall lights, with a switch at the top of the stairs and one at the bottom. I actually did try wiring the loose sleeve red wire to the earth on the fitting, but it didn't work. Then I was told that as there are two switches (ie two way switching) there would be two live wires.

Any advice?

 

[Steve3948]

Let me get this right, are talking about the cabling at the switch or the wall light.

 

[Space cat]

It's true that in a two-way switching circuit there are wires other than permanent live which can be live when the lights are off. This has nothing to do with the extra, red sleeved wire sticking out of your wall! If your switches were working before, and you haven't touched them, there's no reason to suspect them now.

As Steve3948 has already said, it sounds like somebody used red sleeving on the earth wire because that's all they had. (The earth wire in flat twin and earth cable has no insulation of its own.) Can you follow that wire back to the end of a cable from which all three wires emerge?

On your first attempt, did you put both 'red' wires into the same terminal? If you did this the fuse would blow as soon as you switched the lights on.

 

[wilder]

Hi folks,

I'll try to clear up the confusion(s) ..........

1) I am talking about the actual light fittings not the switches (as far as I know the switches work OK!)

2) The first time I tried the wiring I connected as follows
Wall normal red wire to a terminal block connecting to the brown light fitting wire
Wall black wire to a terminal block connecting to the blue light fitting wire
Wall 'loose sleeve' red wire to a terminal block connecting to the yellow/green light fitting wire
Result: nothing, but fuse didn't blow

3) The second time I tried connecting as follows
Both wall fitting red wires to a terminal block connecting to the brown light fitting wire
Wall black wire to a terminal block connecting to the blue light fitting wire
Yellow/green light fitting wire into a terminal block connecting to nothing
Result: fuse blew as soon as I pushed the button (Good call, Space Cat!!)

So, the second method is obviously not right, then? lol!

I did wonder whether the fact that I was connecting the lights and testing them one at a time had any bearing on all this. ie. The wires for the other light fitting are simply hanging out of the wall at this point.

At the risk of sounding really 'girly' - If I look at the wiring in one of the switches would that give me a clue? I can't really follow the wires anywhere else.

Thanks for all your help - hopefully I'll get a result in the end!

 

[Space cat]

The wires for the other light fitting are simply hanging out of the wall at this point.

If there are two sets of wires hanging out, that's your answer. Power goes to that one first then on to the second one. At the first light you must connect both 'real' reds (NOT the loose sleeved ones) to brown, both blacks to blue and both sleeved bare wires to earth. Wire the second light as per your first attempt (sleeved bare wire to earth).

PS: Since the fuse blew, I assume that the two earth wires were connected to each other already.

 

[wilder]

Right, I think I get it now. Because I was switching on the switch at the bottom of the stairs while there was nothing connected to the three wires for the light half way up the stairs the power wasn't getting through to the light fitting that I had connected at the top of the stairs???

Why do I get myself into these things?? It's all very well my daughter thinking I'm wonderful, and relying on me to do these jobs, but I shall have to tell her I rely on all of you for the actual knowledge!!