Floorboard brads with sharp ends

[Yukster]

I can't find any floorboard brads with sharp ends, they only sell the ones with the square ends which are harder to hammer in. Can you point me to a retailer that sell them?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

The ones with the "square ends" should be less prone to splitting the material and hold better in the same way that cut nails work better on softwood floorboards, but take more physical effort to drive in than round or oval nails

 

[Yukster]

That makes perfect sense. I also pre-drill with a 3mm bit which works well.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

When you are talking about "brads", precisely what do you mean?

For nail gun use "brads" refer to 16 or 18 gauge collated 2nd fix nails, but they are far too light for holding floor boards. The other nails commonly called "brads" are really round nails - and in that instance the term you are using is the American one (this was my presumption)

For hand nailing, at least before the advent of first fix nail guns, floor boards were generally fixed with either oval nails (typically 2-1/2 to 3in long) or with French nails (round shanks with clout heads) of the same length - either of which are a good deal more substantial than "brads". Hence my question.

In point of fact it is quite normal to blunt the points of oval and French (round) nails before use as that reduces the tendency to split near the ends of the boards. Blunting is done by striking the points of the nails with the cheek of the hammer (never the face, because it will damage the face hardening - but with some modern designs of hammer, like my titanium framing hammer, there is no cheek on the hammer... grrr) Doing that mimicks the manner in which the earlier cut nails work - entering the timber not unlike a chisel would. I can assure you that nailing floors is hard work, especially with the wrong hammer, and that hand nailing cut nails in quantity certainly requires a heavier hammer (I'd recommend a 24 oz or heavier, as opposed to a typical DIY 16 oz "toffee hammer"). Oval nails can be driven with lighter "knocking sticks", but a 20 oz is the minimum I'd use (at one time I had four or five hammers, all of different weights, different handle lengths and different styles of claws, all for different tasks)

 

[Yukster]

These are the floor brads I mean

 

[Deleted member 174758]

That is what we call a cut nail, so called because they are cut out of a flat ribbon of steel, hence the square ends (I realise that Amazon call them "brads", but I doubt many ironmongers or builders merchants on my neck of the woods would call them that) . If you are struggling to drive them I suggest you try a heavier hammer, or switch to oval nails which are less traditional, but which can be driven with a lighter hammer. Just blunt them first.

 

[Yukster]

That is what we call a cut nail, so called because they are cut out of a flat ribbon of steel, hence the square ends (I realise that Amazon call them "brads", but I doubt many ironmongers or builders merchants on my neck of the woods would call them that) . If you are struggling to drive them I suggest you try a heavier hammer, or switch to oval nails which are less traditional, but which can be driven with a lighter hammer. Just blunt them first.

They're called both floorboard brads or brad nails (in most builder marchants in London) or cut nails, although the latter look a bit different when I search for them online. It maybe a regional variation, who knows. I can drive them in ok, but my partner said she prefers the pointy ones which i now realise are more likely to split the boards. Thanks for the learned advice I always learn something new when I post here.

 

[delberto]

Hi yukster,

They are cut nails as jobandknock says. I’m a London born chippie and never heard them Called Brads except on the discovery channel. Drilling a hole may help get them started. If you are redoing a floor and want cut nails for aesthetic reasons then fine, if you are just refixing floor boards then use a 3mm bit and 3.5 x 50 screws, 8 gauge by 2 inch in American lingo. Just make sure you avoid pipes and if no pipes about stay at least 20mm / 3/4 inch from the board edges.

Merry new year

 

[Yukster]

Discovery channel?! Try Builders Depot, Screwfix, Travis Perkins, Lawsons

 

[Deleted member 174758]

...although the latter look a bit different when I search for them online. It maybe a regional variation, who knows

I went and had a look at what on-line retailers sell as "cut nails". More than half the examples I found were actually wrought nails. The difference is that wroughts were an earlier technology and were originally hand wrought by a local blacksmith. Later on nail making became a separate trade (especially around Cradley and Netherton in the Black Country) but the same process was used with manufacture if that type of nail dying out in the 1860s (at least based on listed buildings I've worked on) due to cut nails being cheaper to make. It seems to be another example of the people selling stuff not knowing how things are made or used

...my partner said she prefers the pointy ones which i now realise are more likely to split the boards.

I'm starting to think that a lot of this knowledge, which was all part of the trades at one time, is being lost. The reason I need to know this stuff is that part of my work is on listed buildings these days (that, and being old enough to have been taught this stuff...)

QUOTE="delberto, post: 5382511, member: 163162"]
Drilling a hole may help get them started.
[/QUOTE]
Nah, just use a bigger 'ammer!

...3.5 x 50 screws, 8 gauge by 2 inch in American lingo.

Ooh, no, not American at all! Screw sizing in the UK was always based on Nettlefolds (later part of GKN) sizes from the Victorian period onwards. No. 8s are more like a 4.0 or 4.5mm metric screws (technically they have a 4.2mm shank and require a 3.5mm pilot hole). Pretty much all the screws we use these days are metric with the exception of brass and bronze screws, which tend to be old stock wherever possible

Happy New Year when it arrives!