Flue inspection - new boiler install

[dolphin21]

we have an old boiler where a short flue passes first through the bathroom (where it is boxed in) and then to the external wall. We are getting a new boiler installed and have been told by an engineer that if want to keep the flue where it is (boxed in), we will need an inspection hatch to be installed in the bathroom.

Another engineer has told us that as long as the new flue is a single piece (ie no joints) and does not change direction, we can have the new flue boxed in and there is no need to inspection hatch.

i am confused. any suggestions. do regulations allow for flue in concealed voids/box without inspection hatch as long as it is a new flue and the engineer provides paper work to confirm that there are no joints or change in direction?

 

[FiremanT]

we have an old boiler where a short flue passes first through the bathroom (where it is boxed in) and then to the external wall. We are getting a new boiler installed and have been told by an engineer that if want to keep the flue where it is (boxed in), we will need an inspection hatch to be installed in the bathroom.

Another engineer has told us that as long as the new flue is a single piece (ie no joints) and does not change direction, we can have the new flue boxed in and there is no need to inspection hatch.

i am confused. any suggestions. do regulations allow for flue in concealed voids/box without inspection hatch as long as it is a new flue and the engineer provides paper work to confirm that there are no joints or change in direction?

there was a gas Safe technical Bulletin around this a few years ago. IIRC, the installer has to note it indelibly that there is no joins in the duct - manufacturers make specially long flue sections to facilitate.

But beware, if a future RGI visits, and the absence of joints cannot be proven, the "Procedure" will be invoked

 

[dolphin21]

thank you. If the installer provides a certificate that there are no joints, will that be enough for future RGI visits? Or are we safer to get a hatch done.

 

[FiremanT]

thank you. If the installer provides a certificate that there are no joints, will that be enough for future RGI visits? Or are we safer to get a hatch done.

Personally, I would get a hatch. If done with he work, it is likely to be tidier than a retrofit - and some are quite good looking. To that end, i would either specify to the installer, purchase yourself, or ash him to specify to you for your approval. Some guys will just cut a square out of the boxing and reinsert with screws, which always looks rough, IMO.

You may get resistance from a future RGI, who may have the opinion that they cannot go on the word of another and will need a visual inspection.

 

[MeldrewsMate]

The regs state that all flue joints must supported and must be accessible for inspection. The inspection hatch must be within 300mm of the flue joint.
As far as I know they do not consider any opinion a subsequent RGI might have!
It is prudent to cover any such possibility though, or you may end up with the gas transporter (Transco, et al) threatening to cut off your gas supply.

 

[FiremanT]

The regs state that all flue joints must supported and must be accessible for inspection. The inspection hatch must be within 300mm of the flue joint.
As far as I know they do not consider any opinion a subsequent RGI might have!
It is prudent to cover any such possibility though, or you may end up with the gas transporter (Transco, et al) threatening to cut off your gas supply.

Regardless, plenty of RGI’s make up their own rules, and pass them off as “new regs”.

 

[gas112]

The regs state that all flue joints must supported and must be accessible for inspection. The inspection hatch must be within 300mm of the flue joint.
As far as I know they do not consider any opinion a subsequent RGI might have!
It is prudent to cover any such possibility though, or you may end up with the gas transporter (Transco, et al) threatening to cut off your gas supply.

Why would they threaten to cut off a gas supply for a possible AR ?

 

[gas112]

If its possible to get it in on one length then take pictures of it during installation and keep them in a folder attached to boiler for any future visits so it proves it

 

[ianmcd]

The regs state that all flue joints must supported and must be accessible for inspection. The inspection hatch must be within 300mm of the flue joint.
As far as I know they do not consider any opinion a subsequent RGI might have!
It is prudent to cover any such possibility though, or you may end up with the gas transporter (Transco, et al) threatening to cut off your gas supply.

why would the gas transporter even be interested ? they are not qualified to inspect anything to do with the flue

 

[FiremanT]

why would the gas transporter even be interested ? they are not qualified to inspect anything to do with the flue

Thet would have no interest in an AR, but surely they would have to be interested in, say, an incomplete flue?

 

[ianmcd]

A

Thet would have no interest in an AR, but surely they would have to be interested in, say, an incomplete flue?

A FCO has no appliance qualifications whatsoever, some kept on their origional qualies and dont tell who they are working for, but they have no qualies to do anything on an appliance, that is why they are called TOFO, the second you say flue problem , CO monitor actuating when gas appliance is on, no problem TOFO, pass the buck not their problem

 

[FiremanT]

A

A FCO has no appliance qualifications whatsoever, some kept on their origional qualies and dont tell who they are working for, but they have no qualies to do anything on an appliance, that is why they are called TOFO, the second you say flue problem , CO monitor actuating when gas appliance is on, no problem TOFO, pass the buck not their problem

They won’t do any actual work, but ultimately they would have enough interest in dishing the meter or cutting iff in the street.

Which raises the question: If I ID something, and the owner refuses permission to isolate, I have to inform Cadent.
Do they take my word that it is ID, and disconnect? How can they check or argue as they are not “competent” to overturn my decision?
What if it transpired that I was wrong, after they had deprived a customer of gas?

I have never actually though of that before - and only been involved in one instance , which was clear cut - boiler terminal in conservatory

 

[ianmcd]

They won’t do any actual work, but ultimately they would have enough interest in dishing the meter or cutting iff in the street.

Which raises the question: If I ID something, and the owner refuses permission to isolate, I have to inform Cadent.
Do they take my word that it is ID, and disconnect? How can they check or argue as they are not “competent” to overturn my decision?
What if it transpired that I was wrong, after they had deprived a customer of gas?

I have never actually though of that before - and only been involved in one instance , which was clear cut - boiler terminal in conservatory

a few years back I got a call from the manager at SGN, he says need a favour we have had a cessation and one of the houses we cant get the boiler back on any chance of going, so goes down and sitting in the kitchen is my old journeyman when I was an apprentice, he had been sitting there for six hours, I lit the boiler was only the earth lead had come off the piezo, I said you could have done that, he said I know but not allowed as we cant touch appliances, fair play he had an easy shift out of playing them at their own game

 

[dolphin21]

one of the engineers who visited us told us that there is no need for a hatch if flue has no joints or change in direction - but from replies to my message, it seems future annual inspections may be a problem because they may not be wanting to rely on original installers certification about no joints / change of direction.

 

[FiremanT]

one of the engineers who visited us told us that there is no need for a hatch if flue has no joints or change in direction - but from replies to my message, it seems future annual inspections may be a problem because they may not be wanting to rely on original installers certification about no joints / change of direction.

I am certain that there was a TB or an article in the gas rag about this, when extra long lengths became available, to the effect that you don't need to fit a hatch if there no joints. You had to note it somehow/somewhere, but don't recall the details, and I have not fitted boilers for years. But there is always the (excellent) chance of an RGI disagreeing further down the line.