Flue pipe/chimney problems

[cluntiesmate]

Hello people,
Does anyone know how to increase the draw on a flue pipe. It is in an upstairs flat and the flue is only about 9, foot long, I have extended the pipe by 3ft but is still a problem. It has been working OK and passed all checks every year for 10 years, (needed to be lit for 10 mins to pass gas check) It has now failed the check. Does anyone know if the Spinner flue cowl or anything else can help resolve this problem.
Thanks Guys
Kev

 

[bengasman]

Work on flues is definitely not diy territory, and open flues even less so. Get a pro to check this death trap.

 

[gas112]

Yes a spinning terminal will help as they increase pull . But other factors such as position affect it greatly. Picture may help

 

[dcawkwell]

If it is tested on a warm day then getting a chimney to draw is going to
be a problem and will need a significant amount of heat to
warm the bricks up to get things going.

My bet is it will be fine if you have it tested in October.

May sure they are actually testing the fire in the right place.
I've done a number of fires that have been condemned yet that
was because the idiot tested the fire in the wrong place even
though the instruction plate was clear as day on how to do it (covered
in dust so obviously not read!)

 

[cluntiesmate]

Yes a spinning terminal will help as they increase pull . But other factors such as position affect it greatly. Picture may help

Thanks so much for the reply. I am new to this post so I am learning slowly how to use the various tools. The top of the flue was 3ft lower for 10 years, since the building was converted and it passed the gas check each year. It sometimes had to have the fire lit for ten minutes or so, to pass, but always did so. I don't do "do it yourself" on gas for obvious reasons, so this has been fitted by professionals and a roofer fitted the extension to the pipe. I thought, it could only increase the draw by extending the pipe, but it seems to have had no effect. The old position before the recent three foot extension was just level with a ridge, I thought the ridge was baffling the wind and causing turbulence over the top of the pipe because sometimes it was worse than others.
I'll send a photo if you tell me how to. Or if you send me an email address I can easilly do it.
Thanks again for your time.
Kev

 

[cluntiesmate]

If it is tested on a warm day then getting a chimney to draw is going to
be a problem and will need a significant amount of heat to
warm the bricks up to get things going.

My bet is it will be fine if you have it tested in October.

Make sure they are actually testing the fire in the right place.
I've done a number of fires that have been condemned yet that
was because the idiot tested the fire in the wrong place even
though the instruction plate was clear as day on how to do it (covered
in dust so obviously not read!)

Would having only flue pipes and no chimney/bricks to get warm effect things?
You seem to be local to me, if you give me some contact details we can make personal contact and discuss things in greater detail. I need to find a reliable plumber for my renters anyway.
Thanks Kev

 

[bengasman]

I need to find a reliable plumber for my renters anyway.

And in the meantime you put their lives at risk with diy on open flued appliances.

 

[bengasman]

What DIY are you referring to?

This:

flue is only about 9, foot long, I have extended the pipe by 3ft

And how dare you assume that I would endanger anyone! I have all checks completed at correct times and act upon any instructions given.

I dare assume that on the same basis as that I would assume somebody without a license driving a car based upon what he was told. I dare say that assumption is rather accurate, because landlords caught doing this get heavy fines and custodial sentences when they get caught again.

 

[cluntiesmate]

What DIY are you referring to?

This:

flue is only about 9, foot long, I have extended the pipe by 3ft

And how dare you assume that I would endanger anyone! I have all checks completed at correct times and act upon any instructions given.

I dare assume that on the same basis as that I would assume somebody without a license driving a car based upon what he was told. I dare say that assumption is rather accurate, because landlords caught doing this get heavy fines and custodial sentences when they get caught again.

So how would you assume someone had no license without knowing anything about him? On what grounds would it be acceptable in your self-righteous world to make that judgement? You choose selected sections of replies to back up your prejudice which are by their nature flawed, for what reason I have no idea? For your information, I am disabled and do no repairs on my properties myself, I only use professionally trained people. I'm still waiting for the police to impose any fine upon me and that is after renting property for 25 years.
I think you have mental problems and suggest you see a "certificated professional psychologist" to get your distorted mind treated.

Those that do, do. Those that can’t do talk. Those that can’t talk criticise.
[/b]

 

[bengasman]

So how would you assume someone had no license without knowing anything about him? On what grounds would it be acceptable in your self-righteous world to make that judgement?

I deduct that from your statement:

I did check his Gas Safe credentials

If you were a Registered Gas Installer licensed to work on an openflued appliance, you would not pay somebody to tell you how to do the job.
Very basic logic.

 

[bengasman]

.... For your information, I am disabled and do no repairs on my properties myself...

But you said earlier:

... I have extended the pipe by 3ft ...

The two statements are mutually exclusive, which means one of the two is a lie, which makes you a ..................

 

[cluntiesmate]

.... For your information, I am disabled and do no repairs on my properties myself...

But you said earlier:

... I have extended the pipe by 3ft ...

The two statements are mutually exclusive, which means one of the two is a lie, which makes you a ..................

Oh wise one, you are correct. I did miss out the "Had" extended from my post. I know someone as rightouse as yourself would never make such a mistake? Oh, just a minute, what's this gibberish?

"I would assume somebody without a license driving a car based upon what he was told"

Eh!

 

[gas112]

Sounds like position is ok as from bottom of terminal to top of ridge must be minimum 600mm .
Ten mins to heat a metal flue is not uncommon . As has been said it may have failed due to weather conditions on the day.
What actually failed the bomb test or the spillage test with fire in position and lit

 

[cluntiesmate]

Sounds like position is ok as from bottom of terminal to top of ridge must be minimum 600mm .
Ten mins to heat a metal flue is not uncommon . As has been said it may have failed due to weather conditions on the day.
What actually failed the bomb test or the spillage test with fire in position and lit

Thanks for the reply,
The bomb test was OK but the spillage test (from the front) was at fault. The fire is about three years old and was lit to maximum when spillage test was first completed, it was turned down upon second test (smoke match) because it was too hot to hold his hand near, he had to hold the match towards the side away from the centre radiants which were still alight. I believe there could be a draw problem but it has passed every other year. Do you know of a way of increasing the draw. I have had the flue extended so it is now about 12-15 ft above the fire but it hasn't worked?
Kev
Thanks Kev

 

[expertgasman]

Notwithstanding the curious comments from both Ben and the OP, I will stick in my pennies worth.

The RGI sounds like a bit of a loser.

The flue has passed the smoke test, but failing the "splillage" test. A test can be done every 5 minutes for up to 3 attempts. After that there is no point, it won't get any better.

Different fires have specific spillage testing instructions. I supposer we all do a generic test, and if it as a clear and thorough draw, then job done. If it is sluggish or fails, then you can't "fail" it without doing it 100% to MI's, which differ from fire to fire.

The test is ALWAYS on high, and if the poor RGI fingers are getting too hot, then he isn't using a proper smoke match holder. And you can't just "do it from the side", there is a specific position.

So, my advice would be to speak to another RGI, explain the diffculty, make sure ypu have the MI's, and HE has the experience. But be prepared to pay even if it fails.

If it does fail, or is sluggish, then:

Have you inspected the length of the flue. I assume this is a pre cast or 5" factory flue, and spiders webs will easily kill the draw.

Has the flue been swept?

Is the fire suitble for the type of flue.

Don't assume anything.

EGM