Flueless gas fire ventilation

[mogget]

So-- why dont we hear any comments from ANYONE- who ACTUALLY HAS A F G FIRE FITTED ??.

That would be interesting indeed.

Not wishing to get involved in the argument,



but



I had a flueless gas fire and it was cr*p. After one winter the walls and ceiling were covered in some waxy, sooty substance, and then I thought, what happens when the catalyst fails?

Pipe capped and appliance removed.

Mogget.

 

[gaswizzard]

So-- why dont we hear any comments from ANYONE- who ACTUALLY HAS A F G FIRE FITTED ??.
.

I have a flueless fire fitted along with a black hole vent , the room is fookin freezing when that wind gets up , gonna rip it out soon so I can get rid of that fookin vent.

 

[peterperfection]

So-- why dont we hear any comments from ANYONE- who ACTUALLY HAS A F G FIRE FITTED ??.
.

I have a flueless fire fitted along with a black hole vent , the room is fookin freezing when that wind gets up , gonna rip it out soon so I can get rid of that fookin vent.

Well- turn the heating up then and enjoy some fresh air .
Also- has nobody told you that a F G Fire is not meant to be the sole source of heat and should be run in conjunction with the heating system ?.

You should read the instructions before you fit a object you dont understand .

Why dont you tell everyone the make of the fire ?. who fitted it, how old it is, how big the room is , how often was fire serviced-- and most importantly-- when it was fitted was a FGA used ?.

ps- same questions apply to the numpty who also posted saying his walls went black.
I really would be interested in the answers .. No cheating though !!

 

[sooey]

Considering you and your partners in crime seem to think hurricanes blow through a hole in the wall vent- HOW THE HELL CAN DUST BUILD UP ON IT - YOU IDIOT .

Leaves, spiders webs, any kind of cr*p can block vents. That's why they have to be checked on safety inspections dumbass. How are people going to do that when it's stuck behind a radiator?

 

[sooey]

Did you never think of taking the outside grill/Hood off and either getting a hoof in the clean it ? or vacuuming or blowing it out ?.

You just haven't got a clue mush, people doing LGSC work need to do them quickly and move on to the next one. Not fck about trying to remove and replace outside vents. If they need clearing out that's extra work and chargeable.
Only a total idiot would come onto a plumbing forum and try to tell plumbers how to do their job based on owning one appliance. Thick as pigsh*t ain't ya?

 

[gaswizzard]

was a FGA used ?.

Could you enlighten me on how to use a FGA in respect of a FF?

FGA...would that stand for 'flueless gas analyser"?

 

[MrsTaraPlumbing]

If you must have a flueless gas fire - please have CO alarms in that room and in rooms above.

I don't have a gas fire and we do not fit them.
I do know a think or two about them, however as I am researching for a forthcoming book on the subject.

The evidence against flueless gas fires is quite overwhelming - not just the risk of CO poisoning, but build up of other gases in the home quickly exceed recommended air quality levels.
Lots of people have problems with soot - for various reasons.

This thread has been on vents - very interesting because whilst in UK & Ireland extra ventilation is required
In much of the rest of the world extra vents are not required or only sometimes required.
Recently in UK there was a problem with the catalyst failing within months of installation & big build up of deadly CO.
The installer was prosecuted and HSE say it was due to lack of ventilation.
I do not know about adventageous air and cubic room size in this particular case - they may be important details. But in many other parts of the world (eg US) exra ventilation would (may) not have been considered essential.

Then I see the post that any one could install one and do a better job than a GSR plumber - was it a monkey or a numpty?
Whilst I am sure this was meant as a joke - lets not forget that actually it is not just about connecting the gas fire to the gas pipe.

It was another GSR engineer who "forgot" to do all the checks and left a flueless gas fire burning too much gas - a child died a few months later when the catalyst was covered in soot and failed.
Now even though that GSR was not registered for fires he was training to work on gas and he was qualified to do boilers - where the same set of checks are on the list.
So if GSR/ experienced people can make terrible mistakes I think it can't just be the sort of job any muppet can do.

Flueless gas fires are banned in some parts of the world.
As for flueless hobs - we usually use them for short period of time and it is known that there is quite a build up of CO around flueless gas cooking appliances.

 

[onecog]

You just haven't got a clue mush, people doing LGSC work need to do them quickly and move on to the next one. Not fck about trying to remove and replace outside vents. ?

13/14 years ago i was on £15.60 a boiler whilst servicing for a local council and i bet 50% of all vents were hit&miss,had fly screens or were taped up or covered with a cushion.All were checked and fly screens etc removed by me and all at no extra cost

Also i have fitted 6 flueless fires and have no problem with them.
If they are installed correctly and an alarm fitted i don't see what the fuss is all about.

 

[bolshy]

A GSR engineer not qualified to fit gas fires should not have fitted a gas fire. That aside, he should have checked the gas rate and working pressure of a new appliance. It's not a mistake, or lack of knowledge, it's negligence. And other accidents caused by these fires is why 100cm2 of purpose provided ventilation must be more than 1m from the fire. One instance of the vent being too close to the fire (allowable at the time iaw MIs) led to fresh air flowing across the oxypilot, whilst the flueless fire continued to fill the house with CO, which accumulated via an open plan staircase in the bedrooms. Again, this fire was burning double it's design rate of gas and led to fatalities.
They have to be fitted correctly, gas rated correctly, ventilated correctly, checked with a FGA at the catalysers and serviced without fail annually.

And even then, I recommend against them. They are only for decoration, not heating, so why bother? Get an electric one instead if your flue is knackered.

 

[FiremanT]

If you must have a flueless gas fire - please have CO alarms in that room and in rooms above.

Such advice is equally relevant to ANY gas appliance. People have died in homes with NO gas appliances, fumes coming in from neighbours. Sad.

The evidence against flueless gas fires is quite overwhelming - not just the risk of CO poisoning, but build up of other gases in the home quickly exceed recommended air quality levels.

Evidence? They are no more dangerous than any other appliance (regarding C0). As to other gases, there have been some negative studies, but "overwhelming" is a big word

Recently in UK there was a problem with the catalyst failing within months of installation & big build up of deadly CO.

Never heard about that!. Links?

The installer was prosecuted and HSE say it was due to lack of ventilation.I do not know about adventageous air and cubic room size in this particular case - they may be important details.

Might be useful to getclued op if you are writing a book

But in many other parts of the world (eg US) exra ventilation would (may) not have been considered essential.

And in fact do not demand a Cat!

As for flueless hobs - we usually use them for short period of time and it is known that there is quite a build up of CO around flueless gas cooking appliances.

Except on Sundays when you mkight have 2 ovens & 4/5 burners going plus maybe a grill or warmer. Often over 10Kw. Flueless fires are 2.5/3.5 Kw

In the dreadfel fatality case that you refer to, the cat didn't "fail". It became heavily sooted due to a numpty installer not noticing the numpty manufacturer cockup, aided by a misplaced ventilator (although the original rule was 500mm, later changed to 1M. Some reports indicate that the vent was right beside the fire, rather than >500mm, but I have not seen anything to provide strong evidence of either scenario)

 

[sooey]

You just haven't got a clue mush, people doing LGSC work need to do them quickly and move on to the next one. Not fck about trying to remove and replace outside vents. ?

13/14 years ago i was on £15.60 a boiler whilst servicing for a local council and i bet 50% of all vents were hit&miss,had fly screens or were taped up or covered with a cushion.All were checked and fly screens etc removed by me and all at no extra cost

That's all normal internal work with access, you wouldn't have gone outside to remove the external vent because an idiot had fitted a rad in front of the internal one like soft ollies is talking about.

 

[MrsTaraPlumbing]

The evidence against flueless gas fires is quite overwhelming - not just the risk of CO poisoning, but build up of other gases in the home quickly exceed recommended air quality levels.

[/i]

Evidence? They are no more dangerous than any other appliance (regarding C0). As to other gases, there have been some negative studies, but "overwhelming" is a big word

Recently in UK there was a problem with the catalyst failing within months of installation & big build up of deadly CO.

Never heard about that!. Links?

The installer was prosecuted and HSE say it was due to lack of ventilation.I do not know about adventageous air and cubic room size in this particular case - they may be important details.

Might be useful to getclued op if you are writing a book

The case was Cecil Crane http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2011/coi-wm-46611.htm
Book not finished - I was just recalling details from my head - I had to go to another computer to look up the reference.
"overwhelming" evidence.
If you are willing to look objectively I'd be happy to email you advanced (draft) copy
_ with no obligation to agree with me!
- but it will be a few weeks yet.

The other case we are all refering to has a lengthy GSR TB about it, ut some readers of the thread will not have access to it.
We are talking about this case:
http://www.gov-news.org/gov/uk/news/statement_following_the_conviction_of_scott/64803.html

 

[Dan Robinson]

Go on and enlighten us. My Google button is broken and I need to clean some dust out of my extractor fan.... Oh wait....with 90 odd cubic metres an hour blowing through there how could dust possibly accumulate?

I'm guessing you will do a Joe90 style vanishing act...or more likely ignore the questions for fear of looking like an even bigger dipstick .

 

[peterperfection]

At the end of the day- we must realise that cleverer people than us have designed a device to heat our homes efficiently and safely.
SO- why knock their products ?.

The people who design such things have put their reputations on the line.
Does that not say something ?.
The people who design such things provide employment for thousands of normal folks .
Their development is ongoing . They strive for perfection.
That is their goal.

On the other hand - lots of micky mouse 'here today-gone tomorrow' gas safe plumbers -- try to knock them down and stiffle development of a good product.
Why do they do that ?.

It is 'fear of what they dont understand'--. 'fear of change'.
It upsets their 'comfort zone'.

I really can say that a flueless gas fire is one of the best investments I have ever made in my life.

I and other foreseeing people welcome change .
You knockers- please take a step back and open your minds .

Deal with facts- not heresay of fear mongering .

I rest my case .

 

[Dan Robinson]

a flueless gas fire is one of the best investments I have ever made in my life.

Not sure that that is a good thing. But a fair attempt at avoiding GW's questions. Take it your Google button is busted as well?