I have been told my new shower installation is smelling because the fast flow shower waste isn't holding enough water. They want to resolve the problem by cutting out my lath and plaster ceiling below the shower. Is there any other way to resolve this problem? I doubt my 250 year old ceiling will stand up to this work.
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N
Newboy
Check that the trap has been correctly installed - including a 'dip tube' if one is included.
Is the trap on shower full of water?
Where do you smell it from? From the waste hole of shower?
Is the shower draining alright?
Daniel.
Where do you smell it from? From the waste hole of shower?
Is the shower draining alright?
Daniel.
Thank-you for your replies.The smell is coming from the shower drain hole, it empties perfectly when the shower is full on.
The trap is not full of water all the time, which it should be to prevent smells; so my installer tells me.
He hasn't said why they didn't ensure it was working correctly before completing the installation.
What I need to know is this.
Is there a valve or something which could go in the existing waste system which would cure the problem without major works all over again?
Perhaps inserted under camera control, such as used in drain investigations.
I don't want my ceiling down in my lounge and I don't want my new bathroom completely uninstalled.
These are the two options offered by my plumbing company.
The trap is not full of water all the time, which it should be to prevent smells; so my installer tells me.
He hasn't said why they didn't ensure it was working correctly before completing the installation.
What I need to know is this.
Is there a valve or something which could go in the existing waste system which would cure the problem without major works all over again?
Perhaps inserted under camera control, such as used in drain investigations.
I don't want my ceiling down in my lounge and I don't want my new bathroom completely uninstalled.
These are the two options offered by my plumbing company.
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The trap needs to have a centre catch cup that holds water and bits that flow from the shower tray and then removeable chrome dip tube in the centre that creates the water seal within the cup. They should have supplied and fitted one with all of that to start with!!
If they don't have those components than it will always smell, needs these bits or a new trap with those bits included, no other option unless you get a one way valve added to the waste line but you need access to the waste to fit anyway.
They are offering the only real 2 ways to correct it, so as long as they make good then you need to go with it, if you want it sorted.
If they don't have those components than it will always smell, needs these bits or a new trap with those bits included, no other option unless you get a one way valve added to the waste line but you need access to the waste to fit anyway.
They are offering the only real 2 ways to correct it, so as long as they make good then you need to go with it, if you want it sorted.
I fail to see why the problem cannot be corrected without major upheaval. As has been said, there should be a 'dip tube' in the middle that is removable for cleaning, that forms the trap. I cant think of a shower waste that would need dismantling in order to to stop it smelling, if they've lost essential components then that's their problem and is fixed at their expense!
Dear Hugh and Madrab thank you for your replies. The shower has the cup and the chrome tube sealer, but the drain smells even when they are in.
Apparently the problem is that when these components are removed for cleaning the shower trap should still hold enough water to cover the water exit hole, thus preventing smells coming backwards. It barely holds a centimetre of water and the drain hole is open and empty to the outside.
Also this drain doesn't go to a toilet waste, it just goes to an outside hopper then down a drain pipe. All of which have been checked for obstructions and smell, so why does it smell anyway? It smells strongest 6 to 12 hours after use then it gets better. It deters us from using it.
You can also hear the bath water gurgling up the shower drain pipe when you empty the bath. They meet before they exit through the wall.
At the moment we are flushing copious amounts of water down both drains to make the bathroom usable.
Apparently the problem is that when these components are removed for cleaning the shower trap should still hold enough water to cover the water exit hole, thus preventing smells coming backwards. It barely holds a centimetre of water and the drain hole is open and empty to the outside.
Also this drain doesn't go to a toilet waste, it just goes to an outside hopper then down a drain pipe. All of which have been checked for obstructions and smell, so why does it smell anyway? It smells strongest 6 to 12 hours after use then it gets better. It deters us from using it.
You can also hear the bath water gurgling up the shower drain pipe when you empty the bath. They meet before they exit through the wall.
At the moment we are flushing copious amounts of water down both drains to make the bathroom usable.
For how often these things should need to be to cleaned, then dismantling for cleaning should be so quick its hardly enough to cause a noticeable issue. Secondly, if running to a hopper there should be minimal pressure in the pipework for a vast amount of stale air to be blown back anyway. Methinks you've been given a very poor standard of workmanship here, and now are being bought off with excuses.
They need to come back, reroute the waste separately to the hopper, (and ideally into a stack if possible!), and fit the right trap to the tray to solve the problem once and for all. Further bodges are not acceptable.
They need to come back, reroute the waste separately to the hopper, (and ideally into a stack if possible!), and fit the right trap to the tray to solve the problem once and for all. Further bodges are not acceptable.
The way these traps work is that the waste itself empties, the catch cup holds the water and the chrome dip tube has a rubber seal on it and when you push that into the waste cup then the water in the cup is the seal. As others have mentioned, it sounds like the bath is pulling and emptying that water seal, and that is the issue.
Nige + Hugh hit it on the head, should be separate waste as the shower trap doesn't have a great seal to start with or suitable anti vac + pipe sizing installed, if that's not an option then you may get away with a new anti vac trap on the bath or in-line on the shower waste pipe run.
Nige + Hugh hit it on the head, should be separate waste as the shower trap doesn't have a great seal to start with or suitable anti vac + pipe sizing installed, if that's not an option then you may get away with a new anti vac trap on the bath or in-line on the shower waste pipe run.
Many Thanks to all the people who have replied to my query.
I now understand how the waste assembly actually acts as what would be the S bend on the toilet.
I will ensure the cup is refilled with water after cleaning to provide the water seal.
I think this may have been returned empty sometimes after cleaning and being put back in the shower hole.
I will see how this goes. What I don't understand is why the guy who came to assess the problem didn't say this to me.
Why did he think there should be a water trap in the exit pipe itself, such as there is on a sink?
I don't think the hopper drainage can be the problem as the water drainage has always been assembled this way in my 250 year old house,
and never smelled before this shower was fitted.
Thanks Mr2
I now understand how the waste assembly actually acts as what would be the S bend on the toilet.
I will ensure the cup is refilled with water after cleaning to provide the water seal.
I think this may have been returned empty sometimes after cleaning and being put back in the shower hole.
I will see how this goes. What I don't understand is why the guy who came to assess the problem didn't say this to me.
Why did he think there should be a water trap in the exit pipe itself, such as there is on a sink?
I don't think the hopper drainage can be the problem as the water drainage has always been assembled this way in my 250 year old house,
and never smelled before this shower was fitted.
Thanks Mr2
Yes indeed, a bottle trap is probably closer but the idea's the same. The grill/cover tube has a rubber washer on the outside that seals up the outside of the waste and then the centre tube runs into the cup with the water in it creating the water seal.
Maybe he didn't really realise what the issue was, wasn't a plumber, doesn't know how it works so didn't consider it as an issue....
Hoppers work fine but you do need to think about how it's piped to. It really is plumbing 101 that consideration is given to a bath that, especially lower on a run, it will invariably pull any other traps on that run, it's the volume of water exiting the bath that then completely fills the pipe and causes a vacuum, hence Anti Vac traps and in-line Air Admittance Valves.
Maybe he didn't really realise what the issue was, wasn't a plumber, doesn't know how it works so didn't consider it as an issue....
Hoppers work fine but you do need to think about how it's piped to. It really is plumbing 101 that consideration is given to a bath that, especially lower on a run, it will invariably pull any other traps on that run, it's the volume of water exiting the bath that then completely fills the pipe and causes a vacuum, hence Anti Vac traps and in-line Air Admittance Valves.
Dear Rob,
Having taken your advice about water in the cup and pressing the seal home on the tube my shower is still clear of smells 18hours later.
I am hoping you have provided me with the answer to my problem. Maybe manufacturers of these rapid flow shower wastes should provide instructions to people like me for correct use of these devices ( ignorant of all plumbing skills, but I could probably save your life in Intensive Care).
Even my installer could have instructed me, but didn't. Anyway my fingers and toes are crossed and I am sure my old house is hoping it won't have its' ceiling banged about !!!
Kind Regards Mr2.
Having taken your advice about water in the cup and pressing the seal home on the tube my shower is still clear of smells 18hours later.
I am hoping you have provided me with the answer to my problem. Maybe manufacturers of these rapid flow shower wastes should provide instructions to people like me for correct use of these devices ( ignorant of all plumbing skills, but I could probably save your life in Intensive Care).
Even my installer could have instructed me, but didn't. Anyway my fingers and toes are crossed and I am sure my old house is hoping it won't have its' ceiling banged about !!!
Kind Regards Mr2.
Sometimes it's the simplest things that are overlooked... Also, if the bath is used and you are getting gurgling at the shower waste, run the shower for 20secs after the bath has been emptied, that replaces the water seal if it has been pulled when draining the bath.
If that's what's happening then filing the shower back up every time may be a pain but an Anti-Vac would need to be fitted to properly fix it.
If that's what's happening then filing the shower back up every time may be a pain but an Anti-Vac would need to be fitted to properly fix it.
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