Free boiler for pensioners - system not flushed? no magnetic filter?
- Thread starter jh75
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These boilers are thrown in so as to make as much money as possible for the company fitting them. Well all i have come across anyway. Is viva gas based in yorkshire? Im sure i have seen a couple of their fitters in my local merchants.
Get a quote for a flush and filter, otherwise you will have problems further down the line.
Get a quote for a flush and filter, otherwise you will have problems further down the line.
Picasso is not Hitler, he, like me has seen millions of good money wasted of schemes that are ill thought out and poorly policed though well intentioned. The headline makes a feelgood factor, the reality is different.
It has not been installed to manufacturer's instructions and that is what the company have to do to comply with the scheme and comply with their Gas Safe staus even though it is not as gas issue. It likely isn't taxpayers money this time but from the levy the government make the energy suppliers put aside for conservation measures. Do some digging on your parents behalf, find out the funding source and let them know of the sub-standard work carried out on their behalf and dollar. If you have an opposition MP let him or her know, they love to stir things up and can often get further than you can.
What irks is an independant installer could have done a better job, probably cheaper than the scheme robbing, freeloading, goldigging, carpetbaggers who set up to pick it clean. Yes, there are good ones too.
It has not been installed to manufacturer's instructions and that is what the company have to do to comply with the scheme and comply with their Gas Safe staus even though it is not as gas issue. It likely isn't taxpayers money this time but from the levy the government make the energy suppliers put aside for conservation measures. Do some digging on your parents behalf, find out the funding source and let them know of the sub-standard work carried out on their behalf and dollar. If you have an opposition MP let him or her know, they love to stir things up and can often get further than you can.
What irks is an independant installer could have done a better job, probably cheaper than the scheme robbing, freeloading, goldigging, carpetbaggers who set up to pick it clean. Yes, there are good ones too.
The Government come up with all sorts of standards like PAS 2030 for installation companies to comply with.
Small companies are unable to compete or bid for the work.
Most of the work is shoddy and secondrate.
This is a story that will run and run, the Warmfront scheme (now defunct) was used as a huge cash generator by the Eaga Group; the Government allowed them to form 12 different companies to do the work, and then appointed Eaga to manage all the quality standards for the grant work, no matter who did it.
Eaga ended up turning over an 8 figure sum every year, and blocking everyone else out of the market. Meanwhile, pernsioners were waiting 6 months for a replacement boiler, and when it was finally installed, the team turned up on a horse and had gone by 4pm.
Nothing changes, only the name above the door. The brown envelopes are still winging their way around the system.
Small companies are unable to compete or bid for the work.
Most of the work is shoddy and secondrate.
This is a story that will run and run, the Warmfront scheme (now defunct) was used as a huge cash generator by the Eaga Group; the Government allowed them to form 12 different companies to do the work, and then appointed Eaga to manage all the quality standards for the grant work, no matter who did it.
Eaga ended up turning over an 8 figure sum every year, and blocking everyone else out of the market. Meanwhile, pernsioners were waiting 6 months for a replacement boiler, and when it was finally installed, the team turned up on a horse and had gone by 4pm.
Nothing changes, only the name above the door. The brown envelopes are still winging their way around the system.
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its a good idea to give grants for boilers to thoses that need it, the bad bit is the scum of the earth companies that tend to install most of them. It should be that the grant is for the person in the correct situation and any registered engineer can claim the grant monies towards the cost of the install, done to the correct standard. Manufacturers engineers can be asked to inspect installs and snagg for a nominal fee which would be in there interest as they will warranty the appliance.
the main winners with these scheemes are the energy suppliers and the large rubbish installers. back handers and brown envelopes all the way.
as for the opening poster your mothers boiler should be fitted as required by the manufactuer. The boiler should be registerd for a building control cert which should enable you to request a gas safe inspection on the install. the biggest issue with these installs are the gas pipe sizing which tends to be 9/10 times incorrect.
the main winners with these scheemes are the energy suppliers and the large rubbish installers. back handers and brown envelopes all the way.
as for the opening poster your mothers boiler should be fitted as required by the manufactuer. The boiler should be registerd for a building control cert which should enable you to request a gas safe inspection on the install. the biggest issue with these installs are the gas pipe sizing which tends to be 9/10 times incorrect.
Damn right VC, would love a slice of that pie and could do a better job than what I see myself
They did actually have an arrangement under Warmstart whereby any engineer could do the install.
Unfortunately Eaga were allowed to charge the engineer an "admin fee" which made it uneconomic for an independent engineer.
I went to someone who had a Vaillant fitted about 8 years ago under a scheme "because he had a disabled son. He also had a nearly new car too!
But nobody bothered to tell him to get the boiler serviced.
The boiler had been subject to a recall for combustion seals. His boiler had never been registered for the warranty so he did not get contacted.
Of course if he had bothered to get it serviced then the engineer would have dealt with the recall.
So the leaking combustion seals had caused about £400 of damage to the boiler.
Tony
But nobody bothered to tell him to get the boiler serviced.
The boiler had been subject to a recall for combustion seals. His boiler had never been registered for the warranty so he did not get contacted.
Of course if he had bothered to get it serviced then the engineer would have dealt with the recall.
So the leaking combustion seals had caused about £400 of damage to the boiler.
Tony
Surely thise seals were dealt with years before that
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They sent the installation engineer round today to fix it. I asked him about using chemical flush and he claims to have used tssm3 (and he used it after installing the new boiler and not before).
He said he left it in for 20 minutes. I asked him what the manufacturer recommendation was for how long to leave it in and he said he didn't know. Then he let it slip that tssm3 was for powerflushing... so not sure why it was used at all because he didn't powerflush.
But he did manage to get the radiators warmed up by using a mallet on them (and by switching the other radiators off). I half think that has masked the problem by just moving the gunk along but time will tell I guess
He said he left it in for 20 minutes. I asked him what the manufacturer recommendation was for how long to leave it in and he said he didn't know. Then he let it slip that tssm3 was for powerflushing... so not sure why it was used at all because he didn't powerflush.
But he did manage to get the radiators warmed up by using a mallet on them (and by switching the other radiators off). I half think that has masked the problem by just moving the gunk along but time will tell I guess
I have not hear of tssm3 but then I only use the market leaders in chemicals!
But what he said conflicts with your initial post saying they don't do any cleaning.
But chemicals designed for power flushing use like X800 and F5 can also be used independently.
But 20 min? That's hardly enough time to circulate.
No inhibitors?
What did the Benchmark show for cleanser and inhibitor?
For amusement you can often see big boxes of 10-20 bottles of cleanser on Ebay for sale cheaply. But all MISSING the installers stickers! Can anyone guess why?
But what he said conflicts with your initial post saying they don't do any cleaning.
But chemicals designed for power flushing use like X800 and F5 can also be used independently.
But 20 min? That's hardly enough time to circulate.
No inhibitors?
What did the Benchmark show for cleanser and inhibitor?
For amusement you can often see big boxes of 10-20 bottles of cleanser on Ebay for sale cheaply. But all MISSING the installers stickers! Can anyone guess why?
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He did add inhibitor... not sure about the flush though
I asked the company yesterday and the girl I spoke to said they don't chemical flush, they've changed their tune today and say the do. Also the way my parents described the installation they said he only added a chemical to the new system.
The actual engineer said he did flush it. But admitted to only doing it on the new system (using tssm3 for 20 mins). Not sure if he's telling porkies. Have checked the manufacturer instructions of tssm-3 and it should be left in a minimum of 5 hours and a maximum of two weeks. In any case he was supposed to do it pre-installation and not post... he just brushed that off and said it didnt matter.
A boiler replacement all done and dusted in 4 hours?? doesnt seem like he went by the book. He did however say that he would discuss with the company to see if they could do a retrospective clean (i think he knew he messed up). So waiting to see if they act on that.
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The whole idea of properly cleaning out an old system prior to a new boiler install is to ensure to minimise the risk of the shiny boiler becoming contaminated, that includes cleaning out the rads. As Muggles mentioned - this is a manufacturer and BS standard that should be followed. If it is bad enough then it would also need powerflushed.
Using a mallet has only loosened the sludge and allowed it to move around the system, it will reappear, hopefully not in the H/E (s). That is not a fix!!
I hate to think how many systems have been fitted where they haven't prepped it correctly and the owners now have issues that the manufacturers wont warranty.
Again, as D_H mentioned, if they aren't forthcoming I'd be getting in touch with WB and see if they would be prepared to help with a site visit.
Using a mallet has only loosened the sludge and allowed it to move around the system, it will reappear, hopefully not in the H/E (s). That is not a fix!!
I hate to think how many systems have been fitted where they haven't prepped it correctly and the owners now have issues that the manufacturers wont warranty.
Again, as D_H mentioned, if they aren't forthcoming I'd be getting in touch with WB and see if they would be prepared to help with a site visit.
Or vent some water off and send it to Fernox so they can analyse it. It'll cost you around £30. Tell the company you are going to do it. If they come back to clean it tell them you'll do it afterwards and make sure it complies with either the British Standard or manufacturers instructions (they can differ).
It is a free job and I have a lot of sympathy with Picasso but it boils our pee to see good money going on bad jobs but we see so much of it we have less sympathy for the victims (or suckers) whichever way you care to look at things. If something is too good to be true, it ususally is. I have zero sympathy for the company that did the work and a little for the guy who actually carried out the work because the owners would have screwed the price so ridiculously tightly to maximise profit he has to cut corners to make a living.
It is a free job and I have a lot of sympathy with Picasso but it boils our pee to see good money going on bad jobs but we see so much of it we have less sympathy for the victims (or suckers) whichever way you care to look at things. If something is too good to be true, it ususally is. I have zero sympathy for the company that did the work and a little for the guy who actually carried out the work because the owners would have screwed the price so ridiculously tightly to maximise profit he has to cut corners to make a living.
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I've been trying to avoid talking about the politics but I feel compelled.
@JohnD , @simond, @Madrab and @muggles haver pretty much articulated a balanced and fair view.
There is obviously a problem with the way the schemes are managed within the industry, everyone can see that. Now you can target your vitriol at the victims (or suckers) as you like to call them. But in our case (and probably many like it) the 'suckers' are 70+ year olds. They dont even have mobile phones because they don't know how to use them. Dont even mention the internet.
Therefore, when a salesman from your industry comes knocking on the door of such vulnerable people; they don't have to be 'salesman of the year' to get OAP's to sign on the dotted line. It's not the first time my parents have been pressured into signing up for things.
I also object to the term free lunch, as they have paid their dues and it is not free because it is being funded by someone. If I had bought them a boiler you wouldn't think of it as free and you certainly wouldn't be moaning about it.
If I may be blunt to the pros, the problem is within your industry and therefore you are the key group of people that should be doing something to solve it. Don't you have a union or equivalent pressure group that could push the ideas you're proposing i.e. have the option for indy's to install? If you expect pensioners who have trouble remembering what they had for breakfast to fight the cause for you, then you are sadly deluded.
The right wingers among you may not like it but you need to get organised, sign up to the 'gas engineers union' (or equivalent) and fight to sort your house out.
@JohnD , @simond, @Madrab and @muggles haver pretty much articulated a balanced and fair view.
There is obviously a problem with the way the schemes are managed within the industry, everyone can see that. Now you can target your vitriol at the victims (or suckers) as you like to call them. But in our case (and probably many like it) the 'suckers' are 70+ year olds. They dont even have mobile phones because they don't know how to use them. Dont even mention the internet.
Therefore, when a salesman from your industry comes knocking on the door of such vulnerable people; they don't have to be 'salesman of the year' to get OAP's to sign on the dotted line. It's not the first time my parents have been pressured into signing up for things.
I also object to the term free lunch, as they have paid their dues and it is not free because it is being funded by someone. If I had bought them a boiler you wouldn't think of it as free and you certainly wouldn't be moaning about it.
If I may be blunt to the pros, the problem is within your industry and therefore you are the key group of people that should be doing something to solve it. Don't you have a union or equivalent pressure group that could push the ideas you're proposing i.e. have the option for indy's to install? If you expect pensioners who have trouble remembering what they had for breakfast to fight the cause for you, then you are sadly deluded.
The right wingers among you may not like it but you need to get organised, sign up to the 'gas engineers union' (or equivalent) and fight to sort your house out.
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