Freestanding Oven replacement.

[deadshort]

double dual ? twin , pair, matching set, two one gang

DS

 

[EFLImpudence]

double dual ? twin , pair, matching set, two one gang

Ah. It was actually a single back box to a dual so more work.

 

[deadshort]

double dual ? twin , pair, matching set, two one gang

Ah. It was actually a single back box to a dual so more work.

Iam not going to debate with you EFI, as you are a major contributor to the forum, and you have my respect, for what it's worth sir.


DS

 

[Astra99]

It would appear we are getting more and more questions relating to appliances which are designed for continental use (16A loading) being brought into the UK with only a change of cable and plug (to 13A) by the manufacturers.

Looking at the size of the pins on the UK plug, as against the pins on the "Schuko" plug, I would suggest the contact area of the UK plug pins are greater than that of the German one. Thus, perhaps we should look at increasing the maximum fuse rating to 16A for kitchen appliances, specifically cookers. I know some ONE will doubtless put a 16A fuse in a table lamp with 0.5mm² cable and burn the bloody house down, but a 13A fuse can do that equally well!

Alternatively, (putting my naughty hat on) tell Europe to "do the other thing"!

 

[securespark]

I know some ONE will doubtless put a 16A fuse in a table lamp with 0.5mm² cable

Manufacturers are already (indeed have for a while been) putting 13A fuses in appliances fed with 0.75 flex, contrary to the advice in 7671.

 

[ericmark]

It would appear we are getting more and more questions relating to appliances which are designed for continental use (16A loading) being brought into the UK with only a change of cable and plug (to 13A) by the manufacturers.

Looking at the size of the pins on the UK plug, as against the pins on the "Schuko" plug, I would suggest the contact area of the UK plug pins are greater than that of the German one. Thus, perhaps we should look at increasing the maximum fuse rating to 16A for kitchen appliances, specifically cookers. I know some ONE will doubtless put a 16A fuse in a table lamp with 0.5mm² cable and burn the bloody house down, but a 13A fuse can do that equally well!

Alternatively, (putting my naughty hat on) tell Europe to "do the other thing"!

The "Schuko" plug does not contain a fuse the fuse is in the consumer unit rather than in the plug like with our old 15A plugs.

Any fuse gets hot, that's how they work the wire inside gets that hot it melts and disconnects the appliance. As a result there must be a way to get rid of that heat. With the plug it needs to be in free air or in the cooling air circulated by the oven fan. With a FCU the heat is transferred into the wall.

The point being made is unless a FCU is used then the oven is only protected by a 32A fuse. There are other fused plugs

Untitled

• ericmark
• 23 Apr 2015
• 2

but as already stated hard enough swapping a double for a duel never mind using silly plugs.

 

[JohnW2]

Any fuse gets hot, that's how they work the wire inside gets that hot it melts and disconnects the appliance. As a result there must be a way to get rid of that heat. With the plug it needs to be in free air or in the cooling air circulated by the oven fan. With a FCU the heat is transferred into the wall.

Eric, you write this very often, but I wonder if you are aware of any actual evidence that, in practice, there are significant differences between the temperatures attained by plugs/sockets and FCUs as a result of the heat generated by the fuses they contain.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Looking at the size of the pins on the UK plug, as against the pins on the "Schuko" plug, I would suggest the contact area of the UK plug pins are greater than that of the German one.

Would you?

Schuko plug pins have a greater uninsulated surface area than BS 1363 L/N ones.

And potentially a round pin in a tubular socket contact has a much larger contact area than a rectangular pin pinched on 2 sides. Look at the construction of 60309s, for example.

But IHNI what the spec is (if indeed there is a spec other than "adequate") for either the shape or contact area of the contacts in sockets. If BS 1363 is a guide, the plug dimensions will be very tightly defined, and the sockets much less so. (except of course it is a German standard.... ).

All I know are that I don't know which has the greater contact area, that there's probably no way to find out or to be always correct, and that BS 546 dropped the requirement for split plug pins and tubular contacts in 1950, and things have been going to hell in a handbasket since then.

Thus, perhaps we should look at increasing the maximum fuse rating to 16A for kitchen appliances, specifically cookers.

How?

There are no 16A BS 1362s, and neither 1363 plugs nor sockets have to be able to cope with 16A without suffering damage.

Alternatively, (putting my naughty hat on) tell Europe to "do the other thing"!

But we are European.

I wonder if we will all ever end up using IEC 60906-1s?

TBH, apart from their ability to be put into 2-pin sockets, I can't see what's wrong with Schukos, and were the UK to adopt them the 2-pin thing could easily be addressed by simply not allowing 2-pin sockets, but I guess politically it would be easier if every country had to change. Which probably means none of them will.

Given that you can get shuttered Schuko sockets, I personally would not be overly concerned about installing them on a 16A radial and citing a compliant departure from 553.1.3.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

People who talk about contact area seem to forget that in practice almost any plug/skt contact is at one, two or at the most three very small points...(until we manage to construct a perfectly defined flat or round surface out of metal).

 

[EFLImpudence]

People who talk about contact area seem to forget that in practice almost any plug/skt contact is at one, two or at the most three very small points...(until we manage to construct a perfectly defined flat or round surface out of metal).

Switches always make me wonder - two very small dimples touching.

Edit - or the opposite of dimples.

Edit 2 - pimples; that's it

 

[securespark]

Nipples, surely?

 

[AndyPRK]

I know some ONE will doubtless put a 16A fuse in a table lamp with 0.5mm² cable

Manufacturers are already (indeed have for a while been) putting 13A fuses in appliances fed with 0.75 flex, contrary to the advice in 7671.

I noticed my Swedish CTEK charger has a 13a fuse in it when it draws about 0.5A. (The sticker on the plug was a give away)

Looks like the manufacture has just fitted a UK plug for this market without knowing why we have fuses in the UK. A 3A would be more suitable.