Fuse Box tripping!

[lisac]

Sockets reasonably expected to supply outdoor equipment must have 30mA RCD protection.

Hi again, so inside sockets do not? We do have an outside socket. Thanks

 

[davy_owen_88]

Any socket, inside or out that can be expected to supply equipment used OUTDOORS must have 30ma RCD protection. I suppose you could argue that since you have an outdoor socket that none of the indoor sockets will be used for outdoor appliances but I would always RCD protect all the socket outlets regardless.

 

[JohnD]

What brand of consumer unit do you have; and which circuits are RCD protected? Do you have any spare ways?

 

[lisac]

Any socket, inside or out that can be expected to supply equipment used OUTDOORS must have 30ma RCD protection. I suppose you could argue that since you have an outdoor socket that none of the indoor sockets will be used for outdoor appliances but I would always RCD protect all the socket outlets regardless.

Ok I understand so 30 ma is how it should be. My head hurts can't really think of any way around this problem. Should fuse board trip when socket is switched off do you know?

 

[lisac]

What brand of consumer unit do you have; and which circuits are RCD protected? Do you have any spare ways?

Hi JohnD, thanks for your reply. By consumer unit are you talking about the fuse board (sorry)? If so can't see any name on it. I have Cooker, downstairs sockets, upstairs sockets, kitchen and outside sockets. By spare ways do you mean any switches on my fuse board not in use? If so yes I do.

 

[plugwash]

it might if the sockets are only single pole and the fault is neutral-earth.

sometimes the only way to get to the bottom of intermittant RCD issues is to take a divide and conquer approach. Unfortunately this can get rather expensive.

if you have spare ways on the non-rcd side i would put a couple of RCBOs in there and connect the socket circuits to them. At best (if its a combination of many seperate leakages) this may solve your problem, if not it will at least give you more of a clue where to look.

 

[JohnD]

I was thinking about RCBOs

For brand:
Each device will be marked (e.g.) B32 Hager or Wylex or crabtree or Volex or something - this is the rating of the MCB (the amps it can carry) and the makers name. If you can post a picture of the CU someone will recognise it.
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=73320

Some of the circuits will be protected by the RCD and some will not - I gather from your reply that the ones on the RCD are Cooker, downstairs sockets, upstairs sockets, kitchen and outside sockets. So your lighting circuits and imersion heater are not on the RCD but seemingly everything else is.

It is quite common to have slight background leakage on circuits, and in this case, it takes very little extra leakage to push an RCD over the tripping boundary. The cooker and the washing machine are likely to have slight earth leakage on them; so are the dishwasher, fishtank heater, central heating boiler and pump, kettle and coffeemaker (basically anything with a heating element and/or water in it). So are any sockets, appliances or lamps outside as they may get damp from rain. If you UNPLUG all of these (not just switched of) you may find the nuisance tripping stops (the cooker should have a very large switch (but no plug) which will be adequate to isolate it)

 

[lisac]

it might if the sockets are only single pole and the fault is neutral-earth.

sometimes the only way to get to the bottom of intermittant RCD issues is to take a divide and conquer approach. Unfortunately this can get rather expensive.

if you have spare ways on the non-rcd side i would put a couple of RCBOs in there and connect the socket circuits to them. At best (if its a combination of many seperate leakages) this may solve your problem, if not it will at least give you more of a clue where to look.

Hi plugwash, thanks for your comments. As this is a new installation do you think this is something my electrician should deal with? I don't want to start spending more money on it if I don't have to.

 

[lisac]

I was thinking about RCBOs

For brand:
Each device will be marked (e.g.) B32 Hager or Wylex or crabtree or Volex or something - this is the rating of the MCB (the amps it can carry) and the makers name. If you can post a picture of the CU someone will recognise it.
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=73320

Some of the circuits will be protected by the RCD and some will not - I gather from your reply that the ones on the RCD are Cooker, downstairs sockets, upstairs sockets, kitchen and outside sockets. So your lighting circuits and imersion heater are not on the RCD but seemingly everything else is.

It is quite common to have slight background leakage on circuits, and in this case, it takes very little extra leakage to push an RCD over the tripping boundary. The cooker and the washing machine are likely to have slight earth leakage on them; so are the dishwasher, fishtank heater, central heating boiler and pump, kettle and coffeemaker (basically anything with a heating element and/or water in it). So are any sockets, appliances or lamps outside as they may get damp from rain. If you UNPLUG all of these (not just switched of) you may find the nuisance tripping stops (the cooker should have a very large switch (but no plug) which will be adequate to isolate it)

Hi again, I bet you think I've got an answer for everything but I have tried unplugging everything, then plugging in the washing machine and it will trip. I do understand that a selection of appliances can have a small leakage that will when all plugged in cause it to trip, but like I said it happens with just the washing machine. I know it sounds like the machine but I can't understand why I can run a cycle without a problem if there is a leakage should it not trip everytime I switch it on?

I just gave you the list of sockets on m eic but I also have downstairs and upstairs lights, smoke detectors, kitchen lights, and heating on the list so I think they are all on the fuse board but only the sockets trip.

 

[JohnD]

Hi again, I bet you think I've got an answer for everything

Sure I have
Including an answer I haven't told you about until I know more about your installation

earth leakages vary, so what trips one minute may not trip the next (especially if the current is made of several small leakages adding together). Even a rainy day can make it happen more often.

Intermittent trips can be very hard to track down.

Any chance of that photo?

 

[lisac]

Hi again, I bet you think I've got an answer for everything

Sure I have
Including an answer I haven't told you about until I know more about your installation

earth leakages vary, so what trips one minute may not trip the next (especially if the current is made of several small leakages adding together). Even a rainy day can make it happen more often.

Intermittent trips can be very hard to track down.

Any chance of that photo?

Just trying to work out how to attach a picture, don't have a web site!

 

[JohnD]

Read that link. I use photobucket

http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n228/JohnD_UK/?action=view&current=stickyout1.gif

 

[plugwash]

Hi again, I bet you think I've got an answer for everything but I have tried unplugging everything, then plugging in the washing machine and it will trip. I do understand that a selection of appliances can have a small leakage that will when all plugged in cause it to trip, but like I said it happens with just the washing machine. I know it sounds like the machine but I can't understand why I can run a cycle without a problem if there is a leakage should it not trip everytime I switch it on?

probablly an intermittant fault in the washing machine.

 

[lisac]

Read that link. I use photobucket

http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n228/JohnD_UK/?action=view&current=stickyout1.gif[/QUOTE]

Thanks, ok lets give this a go! I've got two pictures for you. http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa59/lisac20/fuseboard2.jpg http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa59/lisac20/fuseboard1.jpg

Any good??

 

[lisac]

Hi again, I bet you think I've got an answer for everything but I have tried unplugging everything, then plugging in the washing machine and it will trip. I do understand that a selection of appliances can have a small leakage that will when all plugged in cause it to trip, but like I said it happens with just the washing machine. I know it sounds like the machine but I can't understand why I can run a cycle without a problem if there is a leakage should it not trip everytime I switch it on?

probablly an intermittant fault in the washing machine.

Thank you plugwash, its going to be hard to argue this one out with the shop. Thanks again for all your help!