Fuse Box tripping!

[lisac]

Hi, I have a bit of a complex problem so I will try to make it as short as I can. I have new electrics throughout my house and a new fuse box. However as soon as my washing machine was connected the main fuse started to trip. I had the washing machine exchanged and it still happens, it also happens with my computer. The weird thing about it is that I can switch both on and use them and it is fine for hours then all of a sudden it will trip. It will trip when switching the socket on or off. My electrician said he thinks it must be a leak but machine tested ok. I am now trying to work out myself where the problem lies, fuse board or appliances? Anyone got any ideas, I'm getting pretty stressed as this has been going on for months?

Thanks!

 

[breezer]

more info please.

waht is it that is actually tripping?

 

[lisac]

Hi, it is the RCD that is tripping we lose all socket thoughout house. Kitchen, downstairs and upstairs are on three seperate ring mains but all trip. Sorry I'm not very technical so I hope this is clear.

Thanks

 

[davy_owen_88]

Did your electrician perform a full range of tests and issue you with an EIC?

 

[breezer]

lisaC, no, thats helpfull.

what happens if you plug said items ion a differnt socket? (not the other one if its a twin socket)

 

[lisac]

Hi, yes he did supply me with a certificate. He has also been back out and re-tested. He said the fuse box should trip at (sorry if I spell wrong) 30 milliamps, but the machine he has can only test at 10, 15 and 30 milliamps and all worked fine, but he said I could have a problem at 20 milliamps and we have no way of knowing!

Thanks

________________________________________________________

Hi, yes myself and electrician have tried different sockets and still the same happens. You can plug the washing machine in and switch socket on and off and it might not do it straight away but after a few times it will trip. I have even unplugged all other sockets in house and still it will do it.
Computer actually does it more when you switch socket off.

Thanks again!

 

[GaryMo]

Hi, yes he did supply me with a certificate. He has also been back out and re-tested. He said the fuse box should trip at (sorry if I spell wrong) 30 milliamps, but the machine he has can only test at 10, 15 and 30 milliamps and all worked fine, but he said I could have a problem at 20 milliamps and we have no way of knowing!

Thanks

He shouldn't even feel the need to test the RCD on any other setting but 30ma if its rated at 30ma

His meter should be set to test at 30ma then he should perform a series of tests - 1/2 times (shouldn't trip), 1x at both 0 and 180 degree's (should trip in less than 200ms) and 5x at both 0 and 180 degree's (should trip in less than 40ms).

Did he perform a ramp test? This tests the point at which your 30ma RCD trips. I find most trip between 23 and 27ma.

What were the figures he noted on the EIC he did for you?

 

[RF Lighting]

Sorry if I'm getting too technical here, but did your electrician corry out any insulation testing on any circuits apart from the sockets such as the lights?

It is not unknown for a fault on a non RCD circuit to cause problems with the RCD, but it is more likely to be a fault on the sockets.

Are your washer and computer on the same circuit? (do they both switch of with the same MCB in your consuner unit?)

Does the RCD still trip if you leave the PC and washer unplugged, and use other appliances in other sockets?

 

[lisac]

Hi, yes he did supply me with a certificate. He has also been back out and re-tested. He said the fuse box should trip at (sorry if I spell wrong) 30 milliamps, but the machine he has can only test at 10, 15 and 30 milliamps and all worked fine, but he said I could have a problem at 20 milliamps and we have no way of knowing!

Thanks

He shouldn't even feel the need to test the RCD on any other setting but 30ma if its rated at 30ma

His meter should be set to test at 30ma then he should perform a series of tests - 1/2 times (shouldn't trip), 1x at both 0 and 180 degree's (should trip in less than 200ms) and 5x at both 0 and 180 degree's (should trip in less than 40ms).

Did he perform a ramp test? This tests the point at which your 30ma RCD trips. I find most trip between 23 and 27ma.

What were the figures he noted on the EIC he did for you?

I think what you are saying is what he did, I'm just explaining it wrong. I don't know if he did a ramp test but I know he did a test at 15ma and then at 30ma and it did what it should do, but he said he couldn't test between 15 and 30. I have my eic in front of me not sure what figures you are after. Operating current for all sockets is 30ma the ms is 28 or 2.8, max earth fault loop is kitchen sockets 0.9, upstairs sockets 0.83.

Thanks

_____________________________________________

Sorry if I'm getting too technical here, but did your electrician corry out any insulation testing on any circuits apart from the sockets such as the lights?

It is not unknown for a fault on a non RCD circuit to cause problems with the RCD, but it is more likely to be a fault on the sockets.

Are your washer and computer on the same circuit? (do they both switch of with the same MCB in your consuner unit?)

Does the RCD still trip if you leave the PC and washer unplugged, and use other appliances in other sockets?

Erm a bit technical but I will explain the bits I understand! He didn't test the lights apart from when he did the eic. The washer and computer are on two different circuits, not sure what the MCB is but they both switch off the main rcd not the ring main for the area of the house they are in. The RCD has yet to trip when using any other appliance, even when I switch socket on and off a few times. It only happens when one or both are plugged in and the socket is on. Even though it can happen upon switching the socket off.

Thanks

 

[GaryMo]

I think what you are saying is what he did, I'm just explaining it wrong. I don't know if he did a ramp test but I know he did a test at 15ma and then at 30ma and it did what it should do, but he said he couldn't test between 15 and 30. I have my eic in front of me not sure what figures you are after. Operating current for all sockets is 30ma the ms is 28 or 2.8, max earth fault loop is kitchen sockets 0.9, upstairs sockets 0.83.

Thanks

It would be 28ms for the RCD reading which would have been measured at 1x so that's fine. Loop readings for both circuits (assuming standard ringmain with 32A type B MCB's) are within the required limits.
Assuming all other tests on the circuits found nothing and he hasn't somehow managed to mix the neutrals up between the RCD protected neutral bar and unprotected neutral bar then I would be inclined to say faulty appliances.

 

[lisac]

I think what you are saying is what he did, I'm just explaining it wrong. I don't know if he did a ramp test but I know he did a test at 15ma and then at 30ma and it did what it should do, but he said he couldn't test between 15 and 30. I have my eic in front of me not sure what figures you are after. Operating current for all sockets is 30ma the ms is 28 or 2.8, max earth fault loop is kitchen sockets 0.9, upstairs sockets 0.83.

Thanks

It would be 28ms for the RCD reading which would have been measured at 1x so that's fine. Loop readings for both circuits (assuming standard ringmain with 32A type B MCB's) are within the required limits.
Assuming all other tests on the circuits found nothing and he hasn't somehow managed to mix the neutrals up between the RCD protected neutral bar and unprotected neutral bar then I would be inclined to say faulty appliances.

Thank you for your help. I'm not too sure what to do now as the washing machine is brand new and been exchanged and the new one tested, they said it was fine. Also can't really afford to buy new computer so I'm between a rock and a hard place! Thanks again!

 

[lisac]

I think what you are saying is what he did, I'm just explaining it wrong. I don't know if he did a ramp test but I know he did a test at 15ma and then at 30ma and it did what it should do, but he said he couldn't test between 15 and 30. I have my eic in front of me not sure what figures you are after. Operating current for all sockets is 30ma the ms is 28 or 2.8, max earth fault loop is kitchen sockets 0.9, upstairs sockets 0.83.

Thanks

It would be 28ms for the RCD reading which would have been measured at 1x so that's fine. Loop readings for both circuits (assuming standard ringmain with 32A type B MCB's) are within the required limits.
Assuming all other tests on the circuits found nothing and he hasn't somehow managed to mix the neutrals up between the RCD protected neutral bar and unprotected neutral bar then I would be inclined to say faulty appliances.

Thank you for your help. I'm not too sure what to do now as the washing machine is brand new and been exchanged and the new one tested, they said it was fine. Also can't really afford to buy new computer so I'm between a rock and a hard place! Thanks again!

Actually one other thing puzzles me, if it is the appliance why would it happen when I switch the socket off? I would have thought it would be caused by electric going into the appliance? Or does it not work like that?

 

[lookinn]

The reason you trip with the computer is that the power supply has capactive earth. My friend's does the same thing he had a RCD on the incomer had to change to 100mA RCD. Hope this helps

 

[lisac]

The reason you trip with the computer is that the power supply has capactive earth. My friend's does the same thing he had a RCD on the incomer had to change to 100mA RCD. Hope this helps

Hi lookinn, thanks for you reply. Does this comply with building regulations? Washing machine people suggested a higher ma but electrician said it wouldn't comply.

 

[davy_owen_88]

Sockets reasonably expected to supply outdoor equipment must have 30mA RCD protection.