Gaps in wallpaper seams.

[pz8d3r]

Hi,

The decorating company I'm using is busy wallpapering our newly renovated house but the wallpaper seams keep gapping. I asked the hanger and he said that maybe the house was too cold and that a dehumidifier would help. I rang his boss and he said that a dehumidifier was a bad idea and a regular electric heater would be better. He said he thought the house was too cold and that this was the cause of the problem. He also suggested that they could fill the seam gaps with colored chalk? I asked why they were just ploughing ahead slapping up the wallpaper (4 rooms so far) if there is an problem and he said that "you cant tell till the paper is up if there is a problem with the wall. you should have had the heating on more." They are the professionals and I know nothing about decorating, but they are saying it's my fault for not heating the house up.

The question is, will the gaps just get worse and what should I do?

 

[Zampa]

Tell them to stop straight away....

If the house is to cold then what normally happens is the paper takes ages to dry.....and can carry on expanding while on the wall, this normally results in slight overlaps and not gaps.

If a room is too warm then the opposite can happen the paper can shrink and gaps will occur.

Contact the wall paper manufacturers and ask their technical people...but be carefull not to put words into their mouths.

The guy was kind of right when he mentioned chalk but thats only a short term solution...and I think he was right about an electric heater.

And he is right about you not always being able to tell how a paper will dry until it has in fact dried.....however....the question has got to be asked..if he thinks the reason is because the house is too cold.then why didnt he...1 ask you to arrange sufficiant heating before the job was started....2..why didnt he either refuse to do it in those conditions...3 why did they just carry on papering?

Theres a few reasons for gaps in the joints..dependent on many factors..the characteristics of the paper itself and the surface its applied to...site conditions...materials and the ability of the paper hanger.

One of the biggest causes of gaps is the surface of the wall being shiney and the paper not being able to grip to it as it dries out.....or sometimes the opposite...the paper being applied to a very dry wall...such as bare plaster...gaps can appear then if the paper has been under or over soaked.

Supply them with a heater....and then see what happens...if theres still gaps then you have got em.

My gut feeling is that it isnt down to heat....I am guessing but are the walls bare plaster?

Im trying to run through as many scenarios as poss.....other deckies on here may be able to shed some light on it for you....

Tell us more about the paper and the walls in the mean time.

 

[confidentincompetent]

Reckon cold could be the cause, though as zampa says there are many reasons. Presume you have a Vinyl paper?. Paper when pasted expands approx 5mm if all is well i.e. the subtrate is right, the paste not too thick or thin and paper has been allowed to soak then when hung the joints 'critically' should dry first so that paper will not shrink back to its original size. If the house is cold and damp, unoccupied with all doors shut a very Dank athmosphere occurs. This situation will not allow joints to dry first. joints will look ok when you leave at night but during the day when air / sunlight is introduced throughtout house uneven drying occurs and paper tries to go back to its original state. Not saying it will go back full 5mm but a tiny bit is enough to show joints on colour'd papers. I had this several years ago luckily I only got 1 roll up. Then told the lady off for closing doors to room as I had told her to let room breath. I managed to get a crayon right shade and it looked ok. rest of paper was ok when I promoted a warmer environment. Your decorator should really have seen how paper was going before proceeding. Not to say you want a really hot house just around 15c should be fine and obviously dont play heat directly onto paper.
The other main reason for joint creep of course is if the decorator has problems putting on paper and tends to push too much on the joints (stretching), maybe getting pools of paste running out at the skirting, this usually means paper is being pressed on rather than hung. This occurs a lot with 'foriegn' ready pasted Vinyls where paste seems too thick for the paper. There are lots more reasons but with very cold weather situation and an unoccupied house I would do what zampa says get the heat on and see how paper performs.
Phew I need a drink!!
good luck.

 

[pz8d3r]

Thank you both for your advice. In answer, they did crosslined the bare walls first and the paper isnt vinyl.

I've discussed with the decorator (using your suggestions) and he agreed that they could have warmed the house up first. He said the house wasn't too cold or damp to put paper up (which I believe as its not warm but its certainly not freezing or damp) and restated his claim that 'you can't tell till you get the paper up', but he did say that heating the house up would probably help. He also agreed that using too much paste and stretching the paper could have caused the problem but he wasn't keen to accept that it was the reason saying that all his guys were Dulux trained and wouldnt do that

He said he will re-paper it all again at their cost, after the house is warmed up and they've just gone off to get some space heaters.

Thing is though he's offered to re-paper but he said that I should pay for the new rolls, and I'm thinking 'should I or shoudn't I?', part of me thinks 'Ok. he wasnt to know that the paper would gap", but then another part of me thinks "No dammit he's the expert he should have known and kept an eye on what was happening so he should bear the full cost"...

Most of the papers are Sanderson and Morris and aint cheap so whilst he offer is good I'm still kinda p**ssed.
What do you think?

 

[Zampa]

Hmmmmm..the plot thickens....

Well, thats my papering over bare plaster theory out of the window anyway.

Few points....

1)...As far as im aware..Dulux dont train paper hangers, they may do very short day courses on paperhanging (dont think they do though) but essentially they are a paint manufacturer.

They certainly dont have a wallpapering traing college.

2) Space heaters...not the gas ones surely?...they pump heaps off water into the air and they place will be full of condensation every morning...I hope they are getting halogen or electric.

3) It sounds like his offering to meet you half way.....which is a start given that neither of you can prove liability on the other. You could push it further and say he should have given you the correct advice in te first place....but in fairness to the decorator...if we all painted by the book then nothing would hardly ever get done....
Perhaps he should have said he would do it but not accept any comes backs...it does happen...I got caught a few years back painting a few coats of special anti fire varnish on rough wood..it took so long drying in the cold weather hard drips formed everywhere...i should have done my homework on the materials involved...but he was reasonable and accepted that he did push me too far time wise..giving me no time to do the job properly....in short...I was lucky!

4) Those paper you have are notoriously unpredictable....and bcause they are a 'name' and expensive it doesnt mean they are any easier to hang...and I have had shrinkage problems with Sanderson paper...big problems..and they appeared the following day...luckily the paper was a orangie yellow and I was working in an Indian restruant...I used some f their spices in the joints.....the paper not only looked like it came from the east....it smelt like it too!

If you took this further I think you'd win......you entrusted him to do the job right....hes the expert not you...its down to hm to ensure the walls and conditions are right....and at least tell you if they are not....then the onus falls on you.

Wallpaper manufacturers normally nly enter into a claim if no more than three bits of paper have been hung....this is a tough call on decorators....how can you put up three bits and come back tommorrow to do the rest???

And they will insist on going by the book......any deviation from their guidence notes will invalidate a claim....if the paper is proven to be hung in an atmospere I degree higher or lower than what they recommend....then your mullered...and so is the decorator.

So what happens after the heat is introduced....good luck and keep us informed.

 

[confidentincompetent]

He said he will re-paper it all again at their cost, after the house is warmed up and they've just gone off to get some space heaters.

Thing is though he's offered to re-paper but he said that I should pay for the new rolls, and I'm thinking 'should I or shoudn't I?', part of me thinks 'Ok. he wasnt to know that the paper would gap", but then another part of me thinks "No dammit he's the expert he should have known and kept an eye on what was happening so he should bear the full cost"...

Most of the papers are Sanderson and Morris and aint cheap so whilst he offer is good I'm still kinda p**ssed.
What do you think?

Oh well that knocks my vinyl theory I suppose really both you and the decci have got a bad deal. Paperhanging can be a minefield if things go wrong Your decorator does'nt sound like a rougue trader and is probably gutted at having to redo paper all over a simple mistake which anyone can make, me! included of course. And at least he's offere'd to rectify situation, tho with sandersons etc in the £30+ range your right to be ****ed off . The alternative if you dont agree will be a lot of bad feeling, small courts etc that will take time which perhaps you dont have. Did you supply wallpaper? Perhaps he may be able to get you a discount if he supplies from wherever he gets his sundries from. good luck

 

[Ookysoft]

When you guys use chalk [ or spices ] to fill the gaps, do you use it loose or mix up a paste to fill the gaps? I recently wopped some paper up and usually do a reasonable job but this batch went gappy.

 

[confidentincompetent]

When you guys use chalk [ or spices ] to fill the gaps, do you use it loose or mix up a paste to fill the gaps? I recently wopped some paper up and usually do a reasonable job but this batch went gappy.

Oh dear sorry to hear that M8. I've been there

I managed to get away with just a crayon on that one. perhaps zampa will tell more.

 

[Zampa]

Ive used everything from Indian spices, chalk, poster paint (always good to keep a cheap set of artist colours in the wallpapering toolbox) felt tips coloured pencils and.....ssush.....the wifes eye make up set!!

I dont rely on them....they get you out of a tight spot sometimes, Im a pretty reasonable paperhanger therfore I dont often get gaps due to poor hanging techniques.....but problems do occur sometimes.....one of the worst being fine white lines showing through the seems on a dark paper

I dont make the colours into a paste.....this could mark the paper, I have wetted the joint though so the colour 'stains' the offending edge etc.

The game is to try and anticipate the problem......if your hanging a light beige or creamy paper on a dark that has a dark finish then i will advise the customer to line the wall just in case its uneven and shows the joints up (one of the biggest causes of bad joints btw)

Or...I have painted the wall in a similar colour to the paper before hand..that helps too

We all make mistakes.....its just about how you handle them really