Gas central heating system - snagging questions

[mcburnie]

I moved into a new build house this year and have some queries about my heating system. Basically I am trying to educate myself to make sure that I am well informed before I raise some snagging issues with the builder.

If anyone can help me agree a reasonable negotiating position I would be very grateful.

The system is a gas CH and HW system, with an Ideal ICOS HE 24 boiler. There is a white hot water cylinder in the garage and I cannot find the hot water pump. There are 2 electronic valves (2 port ones) - a silver covered Honeywell one and a white plastic covered one.

My questions are as follows:

1) The electrical wiring is terminated in a white plastic 2 gang box. It is not a proper wiring centre, and contains a jumble of wires joined with an array of terminal blocks. Is it reasonable for me to insist on a properly organised wiring box to be installed? I was going to test the thermostats etc but can't because I do not understand the array of wires.

2) When the HW programme is running (and CH is turned off), the boiler continues to run indefinately. Even when the HW temp has been reached. The boiler stays on, but the call light changes from constantly lit to flashing (and the exhaust gas level is really low). Shouldn't the boiler switch off fully?

3) The same thing happens as in (2) for the CH when the HW is off and the CH is on but has reached the CH thermostat level. Again, shouldn't the boiler turn off?

4) When the immersion heater is switched on, a hissing noise comes from the hot water tank after a while. It sounds like a pressure release. Is this OK or should there be some sort of thermostat controlling it?

5) The handover pack contained an installation checklist, with a page of tick boxes etc to be filled out when the system was installed. It was signed off at the bottom but not completed in any way. Is this dangerous? Should I insist that this is filled out and is there a legal requirement for it?

 

[WDIK]

your best course of action would be to engage a reputable heating engineer and ask them to do a report.

you will need one in the future anyway to service your new boiler

 

[doitall]

You should post a few pis so we can see first hand.

Yes all the paperwork should be filled out by the installer

 

[mcburnie]

OK - here are some photos:

http://mcburnie.zenfolio.com/p244593462/

 

[htgeng]

OK - here are some photos:

http://mcburnie.zenfolio.com/p244593462/[/QUOTE]

Is the benchmark for the boiler and cylinder filled in?

 

[mcburnie]

No - the Benchmark is not filled in at all.

 

[OvertonPlumber]

Oki in your handover pack there should be a blue corgi certificate of conformity which will detail the model of the boiler and the unvented cylinder that was fitted and by whom and comiisioned by whom.
This is a building regulations requirement and the housesale should not have been completed without it.
It sounds like your installation was not properly commisioned in any way as the apparent wiring issues you would have been highlighted at the time.
I advise you to replace the lid of the whit gang box which not ideal is acceptable practice as long as all the conductors are suitable terminated to nic/ industry standards.
I then advise you to contact the company that installed the heating system (damm that corgi certificate lol) and request that a suitably quailified ( part p electrics, corgi/acs cen1, bpec UHW or equilvalent) engineer come back and firstly put right the wiring issue, then properly commision the boiler and then the clylinder.
Any reputable company will realise there trousers are down at this point and a decent engineer will hopefully arrive.
IF they dont your first call is to the nice people at Corgi http://www.trustcorgi.com/contact/contactus2.htmx
On a lighter note ive done a lot of site work and yes there is always massive pressure to get in and out on new builds but i believe that gone are the days when people could get away with losing the benchmarks etc.

 

[holty]

thats shocking worksmanship as the benchmark has not been written out i would question this straight away. also wheres the thermal lockout to the cylinder flow incase water temp of boiler gets to high e,g a motorised valve locking the flow to cylinder coil in this case.

 

[billy bob]

I moved into a new build house this year and have some queries about my heating system. Basically I am trying to educate myself to make sure that I am well informed before I raise some snagging issues with the builder.

If anyone can help me agree a reasonable negotiating position I would be very grateful.

The system is a gas CH and HW system, with an Ideal ICOS HE 24 boiler. There is a white hot water cylinder in the garage and I cannot find the hot water pump. There are 2 electronic valves (2 port ones) - a silver covered Honeywell one and a white plastic covered one.

My questions are as follows:

1) The electrical wiring is terminated in a white plastic 2 gang box. It is not a proper wiring centre, and contains a jumble of wires joined with an array of terminal blocks. Is it reasonable for me to insist on a properly organised wiring box to be installed? I was going to test the thermostats etc but can't because I do not understand the array of wires.

This is nothing unusual, most wiring for heating systems is done using a wiring junctin box like you have, how else do you expect the wires to be joined.

2) When the HW programme is running (and CH is turned off), the boiler continues to run indefinately. Even when the HW temp has been reached. The boiler stays on, but the call light changes from constantly lit to flashing (and the exhaust gas level is really low). Shouldn't the boiler switch off fully?

You just need to get the builder to send the installer back in to check the boiler

3) The same thing happens as in (2) for the CH when the HW is off and the CH is on but has reached the CH thermostat level. Again, shouldn't the boiler turn off?

Same as above but do you have weather compensation (outside sensor)

4) When the immersion heater is switched on, a hissing noise comes from the hot water tank after a while. It sounds like a pressure release. Is this OK or should there be some sort of thermostat controlling it?

That is just the sound of the element heating the water, your kettle makes a noise when it boils

5) The handover pack contained an installation checklist, with a page of tick boxes etc to be filled out when the system was installed. It was signed off at the bottom but not completed in any way. Is this dangerous? Should I insist that this is filled out and is there a legal requirement for it?


It is not dangerous, the benchmark is just some basic checks, not safety related

 

[WDIK]

hey this high quality work in poland

 

[doitall]

It may not be dangerous BillyBob, but I wouldn't place any bets on the cylinder being wired up wrong/right, now that would be.

 

[bengasman]

Typical case of a botch job. Though not necessarily dangerous, 2 boxes with a load of dangling wires is very sloppy and not compliant with bs 7671.
Not filling out the benchmark is illegal and invariably a sign of cowboy work.
Benchmark is essentially a test report that shows everything has been verified to be working correctly, clearly not the case here.
It also contains your name, address and number for the customer to call for future jobs. Why would you not leave that for repeat income unless you have something to hide?

I agree with the advice of getting a proper RGI in to check the whole installation; it is not safe at the moment and you are likely to need a good guy at some point.
Another advantage is that when the boiler breaks down at minus 5, most plumbers will help existing customers where they know what to expect, before calling on someone they have never seen before.

 

[billy bob]

Typical case of a botch job. Though not necessarily dangerous, 2 boxes with a load of dangling wires is very sloppy and not compliant with bs 7671.
Not filling out the benchmark is illegal and invariably a sign of cowboy work.
Benchmark is essentially a test report that shows everything has been verified to be working correctly, clearly not the case here.
It also contains your name, address and number for the customer to call for future jobs. Why would you not leave that for repeat income unless you have something to hide?

I agree with the advice of getting a proper RGI in to check the whole installation; it is not safe at the moment and you are likely to need a good guy at some point.
Another advantage is that when the boiler breaks down at minus 5, most plumbers will help existing customers where they know what to expect, before calling on someone they have never seen before.

Where is there a law that states you must fill in the Benchmark, as you state it is illegal not to fill it in, which implies there is a law that says it must be filled in, I do not know of such a law.

You call it a botch job, but I assume that the OP removed the cover of the junction box to take the photo, most junction boxes I see are wired like this, it is what the name implies, a junction box, I suppose your junction boxes are wired like a printed circuit board.

You say that the OP should get a registered gas installer in to check the system, this will cost him money, why would he want to do that, as the OP said it is a new build house, so he is covered and probably covered by the NHBC.

 

[OvertonPlumber]

Since the beginning of the year gaswork notification reuires you to ansere yes/no whether the benchmark was completed. A certificate will not be issued without you saying yes.
Under the GAS SAFETY (INSTALLATION AND USE) REGULATIONS 1998
esting of appliances

33. - (1) Where a person installs a gas appliance at a time when gas is being supplied to the premises in which the appliance is installed, he shall immediately thereafter test its connection to the installation pipework to verify that it is gastight and examine the appliance and the gas fittings and other works for the supply of gas and any flue or means of ventilation to be used in connection with the appliance for the purpose of ascertaining whether -

(a) the appliance has been installed in accordance with these Regulations;

(b) the operating pressure is as recommended by the manufacturer;

(c) the appliance has been installed with due regard to any manufacturer's instructions provided to accompany the appliance; and

(d) all gas safety controls are in proper working order.

Manufacturer states you must fill out benchmark, gsu stes you must follow manufacturers instructions. Need i go on?

 

[plasterer4]

can anyone tell me why my temperature gauge rises up to the red everytime heating comes on and blows off. i have already had expansion vessel renewed but the problem still arising?

what does the flow restrictors job do in the boiler?