gas leak within tolerance???

[djones]

as i understand. if you have a gas leak that is within the 4mb tolerance with existing aplliances connected this is ok as long as there is no smell of gas.( and you identify that its not on pipework)

but a colleague of mine has told me today that if you identify that the leak is on a specific appliance, even if it is within tolerance, that you have to carry out corrective action. i.e. repair or cap off and warning notice.

my argument was. that if the customer only has 1 appliance in the property you are forced to identify that the leak is specific to that appliance and therefor im obliged to carry out the I.D. procedure and cap off etc.

is this information that my colleague is giving me correct???
i dont seem to be able to find it in the regs or the standards.

 

[Agile]

This is one of those slightly difficult situations.

I would suggest common sense!

If the appliance is leaking gas then it should be repaired.

If the leak is within tolerance then perhaps it could be argued that it is not ID but only AR or even NTC.

The problem comes deciding what to do if there is only 1 mB but I would say that 4 mB should certainly be repaired and never treated as permissible to leave. In any case 4 mB indoors can usually be smelt.

Tony

 

[doitall]

A drop of 4mb is unexceptable in my opinion and probably not correct anyway.

To determine the permitted leak rate for existing occupied areas.

0.0005 x m³/h/m³ of the room volume.

If due to a large room volume, the calculated leak rate is greater than 0.03m³/h, then the figure 0.03m³/h should be used as the maximun permitted leak rate.

 

[HarrogateGas]

A drop of 4mb is unexceptable in my opinion and probably not correct anyway.

To determine the permitted leak rate for existing occupied areas.

0.0005 x m³/h/m³ of the room volume.

If due to a large room volume, the calculated leak rate is greater than 0.03m³/h, then the figure 0.03m³/h should be used as the maximun permitted leak rate.

What rubbish.....some figures you have pulled out your jead??


Until told otherwise ll stick to the known and trusted mbar drops thanks.

 

[2face]

i agree harrogate .. total twaddle .

 

[HarrogateGas]

A drop of 4mb is unexceptable in my opinion and probably not correct anyway.

quote]

What worries me is if you base all your gas judgements on opinions?? Some Boffins dont calculate the proper figures and issue them out for us Corgi engineers to work with for fun and for you to pull some random numbers out your head. i just hope your local corgi inspector sees you calculating room volume on a tighness test.........would be intresting.

 

[doitall]

So I didn't look in the book and 4.0mbars drop is acceptable under certain conditions, when using a U6/G4 Diaphragm meter.

The figures I quoted are indeed correct and the inspector would be must upset if I didn't do them In fact I would probably loss our QA gas status.

 

[djones]

ive just recently sat my acs reassessments and i wasnt aware of anything being mentioned within the tightness test procedure about a drop specific to an individaul appliance. the acs scheme states when testing that you are allowed a 0mb drop on pipework. a 0mb drop on newly installed appliances. a 4mb on a u6/g4 meter with existing appliances connected and no smell of gas. and a 8mb drop on e6 meters with existing apps connected.

just wondered if anyone was aware of a new legislation being brought in regarding an indivdual existing appliance?

what my argument is with my colleague is:
if i enter a house with three existing appliances and put on a test and find a 3mb drop when existing apps are connected (not on pipework) i can sign the test off as a pass and walk away.

whereas if a enter the house next door with 1 appliance and put on a test and it has a 1mb drop because there is only 1 appliance it is therefor specific to that appliannce in which case my colleague is saying that i have a duty to carry out remedial action and repair or cap off and issue notice.
as far as i am aware i think that this is wrong but i just wondered if anyone new any different and if so where is it written down ?

 

[doitall]

IGE/1b is the latest rules. The permitted leak rate stays the same irrespective of how many appliances are connected.

According to the above book one existing appliance can have a 4mbar drop over 2minute provided there's no smell of gas.

For the record if 3 or 4 existing appliances were connected the figure og 4 mbar would still apply, both assuming a U6/G4 meter.

As I said in my opinion unacceptable, even though the book says ok.

I also don't use charts but calculations as above, but then again we are mostly commercial which is more critical.

 

[ChrisR]

HAd this out with corgi due to an unregistered installer leaving a gas leak on pipework, which was found by a corgi whose registration had EXPIRED while HE was doing a landlords cert, and reported to the landlord.
Then I was called in to do a legit landlords cert. So I was told there was a leak on the pipework (1mbar/2 mins, no smell, U6).

So I isolated the appliance, found the leak on the pipes and capped it off.

BG was involved cos they covered the pipework under a 3* or similar. They accused me, they said I shouldn't have tested the pipework. I told them to put that piece of cr_ap in writing. And by the way if they left it connected I'd put their name on the Riddor form.

Ultimately they wouldn't repair the pipe because the installation had been worked on by an unregistered installer! They capped off again and cancelled the insurance.


ANyway to the point - there is a point! I eventually got this from Corgi by email:

On existing gas installations supplied through a U6/G4 gas meter, a permissible pressure loss of up to 4mbar over a 2min test period with all appliances connected and no smell of gas, is considered acceptable. If the test satisfies this criteria there is no requirement to isolate appliances and test the pipework only.

 

[chrishutt]

Odd that Corgi should say "with all appliances connected". So if there was just one appliance, a 4 mbar drop would be Ok, but if there were 6 appliances and one of them was disconnected, a 4 mbar drop wouldn't be acceptable. Very logical!

 

[Agile]

I have to disagree with that CORGI reply!

Perhaps they are right? However if you dont isolate the appliances you dont know if the leak is on the pipework or appliances.

CORGI would crucify you if they attended and found that leak was on the pipework.

Any gas leak is a potential explosion and an opportunity for you to lose your registration.

Quote Chris's CORGi reply to your local Inspector and I expect he will disagree.

What name was on it Chris ???

Tony

PS CORGI are launching a new web site soon with an "Ask the Inspector" feature!!!

 

[ollski]

A pipework test is required on new installations only which obviously includes pipework extensions, there is no requirement to do a test on the pipework of an existing installation with appliances connected provided it is within the given tolerances with no smell of gas.

 

[ChrisR]

Yes an inspector's name was on it. It also said as a standard terminal clause "do not quote this email..." so I left the Inspector's name off.

They wouldn't "crucify" you - ther is no prescribed requirement to test the pipe separately.

The other point is that there's nothing STOPPING you testing the pipe with all appliances disconnected of course, and if you do and there's a "noticeable" leak, then it's IUP.

 

[Agile]

What does one think about an organisation responsible for gas safety who gives safety advice and then asks you not to quote it !

Not so much confidence perhaps?

Any CORGI are going to change! So they say!

Tony