Gas Safety Certificate and Main Bonding

[doitall]

Given that this thread questions the legality of gas supply pipe bonding, isn't it best left to ban-all-sheds and Goldberg and the rest of the Village People. No gas fitters going to know jack about it.

Ah, but he was prepared to put the lack of bonding on a certificate which will be seen by the tenant. I have no problem with that at all, I think he is competent to do so, I am questioning his documentation which states it is the law for a PME installation to be bonded.

Don't know about PME, but Gas regs say the pipe must be bonded with 600mm of the meter, and before any tees/branches.

No bond = no ticket in my book.

You can't write out an MOT on the promise that work will be done.

 

[Biggles..]

Main bonding is a requirement of the gas regs and the 17th,but the Electricity At Work Act is the one that by LAW stipulates this must be present.

 

[bengasman]

How can an electrical requirement be specified in the gas regs?
Complete nonsense to make it an issue for RGI's, as they can see whether or not it is there, but not if it is working correctly. Not unless they carry a tester with them, which most don't.

It is for all domestic electrical installations, pme, or other.


It should not go on the lgsc, but on a separate form and a label on the meter.

The preferred option is to bond inside the building, as soon as is practicable, if the meter is outside.

 

[Biggles..]

How can an electrical requirement be specified in the gas regs?
Complete nonsense to make it an issue for RGI's, as they can see whether or not it is there, but not if it is working correctly. Not unless they carry a tester with them, which most don't.

It is for all domestic electrical installations, pme, or other.


It should not go on the lgsc, but on a separate form and a label on the meter.

The preferred option is to bond inside the building, as soon as is practicable, if the meter is outside.

Its there in the gas regs.
Its there as a tick box option on CP12's

Thats why RGI's make it an issue.

 

[chapeau]

It is a BS7671 requirement to bond as near as practicable to where a metal pipe enters the property. If it enters twice, you bond twice. If the meter is internal then you should bond within 600mm if practicable, if external then the entry point is what matters, not the meter. BS7671:2008 544.1.2

But if bonding is missing, in the gas world, is this a Not To Current Standards or At Risk?

 

[doitall]

Regs say before any branch, in this case it wouldn't comply with the regs.

 

[namsag]

In the gas world all it is ,is NCS and tell customer ie give them a card letting them know.
Also people are mentioning 600mm but forgetting to say before any tee off.
There has something came out recently about not going into boxes and connecting as it comes into house but under certain circumstances that could be after a tee.

 

[namsag]

Just pipped me DIA.
Also the cerificate is neither a pass or a fail it purely says what the guy has found at that time , if something is dangerous it is up to you to fix it or whatever and then have another cert stating what everything is like then

 

[bengasman]

How can an electrical requirement be specified in the gas regs?
Complete nonsense to make it an issue for RGI's, as they can see whether or not it is there, but not if it is working correctly. Not unless they carry a tester with them, which most don't.

It is for all domestic electrical installations, pme, or other.


It should not go on the lgsc, but on a separate form and a label on the meter.

The preferred option is to bond inside the building, as soon as is practicable, if the meter is outside.

Its there in the gas regs. ...

You wouldn't be referring to GSIUR section 10, would you? That applies only to maintaining continuity when cutting a gaspipe, it says nothing about MEB.

 

[Biggles..]

No, i'd be refering to regulation 18 and imparticular guidenance note 136,137.

 

[bengasman]

Section 18 clearly states that the MEB should be done by a competent person i.e. a sparky.
It contains no mention of an obligation to the RGI to take any form of action.

 

[AlanE]

'In particular, those installations with PME (Protective Multiple Earth) must, by law, be earth bonded'.

I am unfamiliar with the 'gas laws' and was wondering where does it say this, as I am unaware of any such law.

Two different sets of regulations come into force here.

1. Gas: There is a requirement for the gas pipe to be connected to the main property earth system regardless of how the property is earthed.

2. Electrical Regulations: When an earth system, known as Protective Multiple Earthing, is installed then there are several statutary regulations involved. One being that all metalwork within the property is required to be connected together to ensure that no metalwork can be at anything other than at the same potential if a fault occurs.

This means that every metalic gas, water or oil carrying pipe, in the case of oil fired central heating systems, must be connected together at the property distribution board. I will try to sort out the relevant documentation and post it up later.

Note: This equipotential bonding has nothing to do with gas regs so you will not find it mentioned in them!

 

[Biggles..]

ben an hour ago you said it wasnt in the regs, now you cant read all of whats written.

it tells you your duty is to report it to the responsible person ie the homeowner/landlord that they should seek the afvice of a electrician. The best way is to write it down where better than on your cp12.

 

[bengasman]

I have the latest version ( I think, 2007 version) and in mine it is stated to be an advice, not a duty.
Don't get me wrong, I think it is a very good idea to inform the homeowner if his electrics are not up to spec to get it sorted, but it is not compulsory to do so in writing.
In terms of CYA, it is of course good practice to inform the homeowner in writing, and keep a copy of this; a cp12 covers that.

Maybe we are not talking about the same thing; I meant the RGI is not required to install bonding, nor is he responsible for getting it sorted. He is required to mention it, but to do so in writing is a recommendation, not an obligation.
As with a lot of stuff invented/updated by this government, it is a paper tiger. We must inform mr Jones that his installation is not up to spec, but don't have to prove we did. Even if we do it in writing, and keep a copy. mr Jones is not obliged to get it sorted this side of 2050.

 

[AlanE]

The legal requirement is:

Extract from Electricity Supply Regulations 1988:

(7) Any metalwork on the consumer's premises which—

(a) is in, or may reasonably be expected to come into electrical contact with earth;

and

(b) is so situated that any person, livestock or domestic animal could simultaneously touch—
(i) any such metalwork, or any metalwork in electrical contact therewith; and
(ii) any exposed metalwork forming part of the consumer's installation but not normally carrying an electric current, or any metalwork in electrical contact therewith,

shall be connected to the earthing terminal.

(8)Where paragraph (7) applies—

(a) every circuit protective conductor in the part of the consumer's installation described in paragraph (1) shall be connected to the earthing terminal mentioned in paragraph (7);

(b) the connection required by paragraph (7) shall be made by means of a bonding conductor attached in such a way as to avoid, so far as is reasonably practicable, electrolytic action at the point of connection; and

(c) where the bonding conductor is attached to a pipe or metalwork entering a building or Structure that connection shall be made as near to the point of entry as is reasonably practicable for the purpose of avoiding the risk of electric shock.


(9) The minimum copper equivalent cross-sectional area of any bonding conductor shall not be less than the figure shown in column 2 of the Table set out below in respect of any supply neutral conductor the corresponding copper equivalent cross-sectional area of which is shown in column 1.
Table
Column 1 || Column 2
Copper equivalent cross-sectional area of supply neutral conductor || Minimum copper equivalent cross-sectional area of bonding conductor
35 sq mm or less 10 sq mm
over 35 sq mm but not more than 50 sq mm 16 sq mm
over 50 sq mm but not more than 95 sq mm 25 sq mm
over 95 sq mm but not more than 150 sq mm 35 sq mm
over 150 sq mm 50 sq mm

(Sorry above table does not display correctly)

These regulations are required in order to protect the system in case of a fault developing where the neutral connector becomes disconnected or high resistance. It ensures there is no shock risk if an appliance case is touched as well as other metalwork in the property.