Gears crunching when put into reverse

[AdamW]

The car in question is a Vauxhall Astra 1.6, 2001. This has a gearbox where you lift up a gear-lever collar to select reverse.

I have had a weird thing start happening on my car as of yesterday. I got to the end of a 60 mile drive, so everything was nice and warmed up. Stopped my car, put it into reverse, *CRUNCH*. It went into gear, without forcing it, but I wasn't being rough with it and it shouldn't be crunching.

After some experimentation I have found that after you have crunched it into reverse, if you put it back into neutral or any gear and then back into reversed WITHOUT releasing the clutch, then it doesn't crunch the second time you put it in reverse. However, if you put it in neutral, let the clutch out, then push the clutch in and select reverse again, it crunches.

If you are VERY gentle and slow with the gear change it seems to be fine, but even with just normal gentle pressure it will crunch into reverse.

The car had its 3 year service and MOT 1 week ago. No warning lights have come on and there are no other symptoms. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this?

I am going to take it to the dealers tomorrow. Believe it or not, the warranty runs out as of today So I will have to point out that it started at the weekend when they were shut. This is worrying me as I have to reverse park and I don't want to blow my gearbox up.

 

[securespark]

There's no mesh on reverse, so you have to be at a complete standstill.

Failing that, it sounds as if, even though the clutch pedal is fully depressed (I hate my life at the moment, man!), you are still graunching.

Sounds like clutch plate going for lunch......

At the end of a 60 mile drive? WOW, you've got posh friends!!!!

 

[glocko]

Sounds like a clutch problem, pressure plate? I don't think you'll have any joy saying that the problem started before your warranty runs out. Best take it to a garage ASAP as the clutch can take the box with it.

 

[AdamW]

I mentioned it to my dad (who always did all his own maintenance before cars had computers in), he reckons that if my clutch is hydraulic, then it probably needs adjusting.

I don't know if this is one of the things the garage did when servicing it last week... 3 year service, doesn't say in the book what they do though.

However, in the handbook it instructs on how to select reverse gear:

With vehicle stationary, pull up ring three seconds after declutching and engage gear.

Three seconds?! Hmmm, dunno if many driving examiners would happily wait 3 seconds during a 3-point turn!

Just an added bit of info: the car has 27k miles on it. Probably half of that urban, the other half motorway. Surely clutch plates wouldn't be wearing out that soon? I am quite a gentle driver and don't slip the clutch.

Will inform of the verdict after Vauxhall take a look at it.

 

[securespark]

I never replaced a clutch in my driving life (despite Taking 4 motors well over six figures), until my (wholly unreliable) last car. Xantia TD estate.

They have the annoying plastic clips that link the pedal to the cable. Well, it broke, and Citroen insisted that it was because the clutch was getting heavy. Can't you adjust it? No. Needs replacing. So I did, very reluctantly, at 48K.

Since discovered that Xantia D taxi drivers snap them all the time and they just replace them until the clutch goes pop.

How come my trusty Montego diesel ran to 160K without so much as a crunch?

French mechanicals, can't trust 'em.....

 

[AdamW]

Hmmm, that is quite interesting in that the clutch pedal on my car has always been quite heavy compared to other cars.

I just put it down to a "sportier" feel than the hirecars I often drive, the bite on the Astra clutch seems a lot sharper than e.g. an equivalent Focus. It actually took a bit of getting used to driving in wet weather as it takes some ginger modulation of the throttle to avoid wheelspinning when leaving work (the 1.6 engine is surprisingly torquey). I find a sharp clutch is very useful when you need to pull out sharply e.g. on a busy junction. Not fun outside my local Wickes where the exit to the carpark is up a hill and covered by a film of diesel from all the vans!

 

[AdamW]

Just did some Google work and apparently Vauxhalls are notorious for this reverse-crunch. The clutch doesn't auto adjust, so needs to be manually adjusted.

Perhaps I will get this sorted and trade it in, 3 years is about right for a car I reckon...

 

[AdamW]

Took the car to Vauxhall at lunchtime, picked it up this evening. They adjusted and lubricated the gear linkage.

I got the keys (was done under warranty), turned it on. Into reverse, *CRUNCH*. So went and got the man. He tried it going backwards and forwards a few times and had no problem. I am tempted to go into the Network Q and try a few other Astras to make sure it isn't just me being ham fisted. If I am super-duper gentle it goes in fine. They checked the clutch adjustment and found it to be fine, and it seems to have a normal biting point when pulling away.

What it feels like (after careful listening and feeling vibrations through the stick) is that a shaft in the gearbox is still spinning for a few seconds after I depress the clutch. This means that when I put it into reverse a shaft is going "crunch". But if I leave it a few seconds I can feel the spin stopping and then it works fine.

 

[pipme]

Silly q now that garage have looked ...fully warmed up is idle rpm ok?turn off lights and aircon ... rpm ? In the days of yore too high t/o rpm would result in notchy rev selection.
Dragging clutch would cause this too. But if you select 1st ok then probably discount that, again no ancillaries on, does t/o drop when clutch engaged but in gear ?
I shall not mention gearbox oil, this should be ok due to service ..... hopefully not over (could broach oil seals) or under filled ...
Cannot imagine clutch 'worn out', anyway merely allows no drive, you seem to have opposite, if anything at all !!
Easy to check clutch cable adjust, usually easily accessable.
Sometimes my Nissan is graunchy into reverse, not a loud sound, more a feeling.
Try select 1st then goto reverse without releasing clutch ?

Trouble is, now you are focussed on this, it can assume larger than life proportions. Have you now turned radio off etc ?? Noticing sounds which may not be so new ?

Tried a relevant forum on web ?
P

 

[AdamW]

I have checked the T/O revs, they are the same as ever (about 1200 on a cold start, 800 or so once warmed up fully).

Tried pushing the clutch in and out, no change to revs and couldn't hear any change in engine note whatsoever so I think it is safe to assume the clutch isn't dragging. I did think this a bit odd though as most cars I have driven you can detect the tiniest change when you do this. Hmmm.

I tried your suggestion of putting it in first, then into reverse (not ham fisted, but quite rapidly) without releasing the clutch. The reverse gate wouldn't let me.

I suspect it was just a case of me being ham-fisted with the gearbox, but I haven't noticed a change in my driving style. If the gearbox oil was low enough to cause a problem (perhaps if the sump plug wasn't done up tight and a pint or so had leaked out) , would I notice increased gear noise at all?

 

[pipme]

If you are sure problem is a step change from normal, you must take car back and explain ... NoProblem - Service - NowProblem .... seems quite logical that they have changed something. Tell them you are potentially a good customer ... buying, servicing etc.

Did you look at the clutch cable(not hydraulic is it?), if you can see the 'arm' to which the cable connects on / near the bell housing, there should be some 'lost play' here but not a huge amount .. obviously the less play the more like having foot on clutch pedal.

Gearbox oil etc ... would need inspection.

Do return and ask them to check whatever they have done.

P

 

[david and julie]

Adam....slipping the clutch usually causes the friction lining(disc)to wear out, not the pressure plate so much.

Pressure plates can wear early when people sit in traffic(not accusing you!)or at lights with the clutch on the floor, for the sake of it.

The slight noise which comes and goes when depressing the clutch is the release bearing, and is usual.

Most cars clutches these days, whether hydraulic or cable are self adjusting, not sure about yours though.

SS meant to say synchromesh not mesh. The synchro-rings are brass or bronze rings. which align the gears, to help them mesh.
He is also right that reverse will not have these, sometimes reverse works off first gear.

You probably have a slight wear on the clutch and the selectors, but it is so common I wouldn't worry to much. Don't think I would change an otherwise good car just for this.

Is there anything under the pedal, like a bit of rucked up carpet etc?

 

[AdamW]

Is there anything under the pedal, like a bit of rucked up carpet etc?

Funny you should mention that, that is one thing the garage actually checked! Seriously, when I went to pick it up "Yes sir, we adjusted your carpet mats as they can sometimes affect the clutch pedal travel.

I do have a tendency to keep the clutch down at lights, I am afraid. It comes from living in a town where people cut you up all the time and will do anything to get to the front of a traffic queue. Sad, I know! But in my favour, I hardly ever have to stop as my drive to work is pretty much straight through.

I am going to keep an eye (and an ear) on this to make sure, but I suspect it is a psychosematic thing. I haven't heard a crunch since Tuesday so it was possibly just me being rough. If I follow the owner's handbook instructions for selecting reverse, it works fine.

Vauxhall seem to keep their gearbox designs for years and years; their old clutches weren't auto-adjusting so I suspect mine might be the same.

 

[L_Plate]

Adam
Try selectng second gear prior to engaging reverese. It might prove alot smoother. Good luck.[/quote]

 

[AdamW]

Thanks

It has stopped doing it now. I think I was probably being temporarily ham-fisted, haven't had a crunch in ages now.