Geminox Problems

[navtec]

hi all,

i have a geminox thi-25 combi boiler, recently got an error code 1 60, any one had similar problems. Managed to fix one error which was 1 30.

only had the boiler for approx 3 years and paid £2,500 for this. surprised so many problems with an expensive boiler.

even if you reset the boiler it does not ignite under error code 1 60. any professional technician advice?

thanks

 

[Agile]

Its difficult to imagine how you came to choose one of these boilers! They are considered good but expensive in France.

There are very few in the UK. I maintain a 37 kW one in London where the owner became fed up with the lack of capabilities of the only service firm that supports this make.

The instructions on that boiler are just a few pages photocopied ( rather similar to the standard of the Keston boilers ).

The makers web site does not have much information and I dont find a boiler with the type you have quoted although posters often get it wrong. There is a THI 5-25 though!

Presumably you have the info and can look up the cause of that fault code?

Tony

 

[Boilerman2]

Envinox are the company that curently import the Geminox Boiler - I think they are in Surrey, seem quite heplpful on the phone most Geminox boilers were imported by Yorkpark (no longer about)

 

[navtec]

sorry the model number is thi 5-25 sep. purchased back in december 2007. Its flagging error code 1 60, in the manual it states "the minimum speed threshold of the fan is not reached". Solution - Check the wirng of the fan and LMU, enure the fan is turning correctly. This is no sign of the a problem with the wiring or the LMU as that was replaced a month ago.

I have to agree, i wouldnt purchase another one of these, you need to have a degree in software engineering to run one of these things. The control panel is so complicated that you have to set the heating curve etc, lol.

You cannot use central heating or the water together as it switches from one to another, so if water is being used the central heating will shut down. I did have a Microstar (known as geminox) which was much better, it had a water tank that heated the water and could use heating and water together and lasted 13 years, but heat exchanger went.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Boilerman2]

The fan is fitted with a Tachometer to indicate fan speed to the LMU it is likely that the fan may need replacing

 

[navtec]

this is one of the most complicated boilers i have ever come across. For some reason if you try to activate the central heating but someone is using the hot water, it wont allow the central heating to come on, until the hot water is switched off. Also, if you want instant central heating, then you must switch off the hot water supply on the control panel.

I called the geminox help line and one of the technicians advised that the boiler can only operate one function, ie. either hot water, or central heating ... I meant what the ******, a £2500 boiler.

The boiler prioritises the hot water supply first and then the central heating and also if you switch the system on, it doesnt work.. LOL, its so frustrating this boiler. One of the guys came from Geminox and when i fired qestions to him about the boiler, he really didnt have any idea, just read of the manual, even they dont seem to understand.

The boiler was purchased by my father who is a builder, but if i had the choice i would buy one at a fraction of the cost and would be easy as switching the light on.

Any way i can find out for sure on how to exactly operate this boiler, as the manuals are far too complicated with heating curves and other maths formulas.

 

[Agile]

Oh you have woken up again! I note that you did not tell us how the previous fan speed indication fault was solved.

Because of the way that boilers work its inevitable that that style will only operate on HW or CH at one time.

Boilers are nowadays quite advanced and setting curves is just part of the commissioning of most boilers. Thats why people who fix boilers need to have a good understanding of technology.

The "guy" from Geminox was in reality just someone from the UK importers and as I said in my earlier posting they dont instil a great amount of confidence. I thought you might have read what I said.

Tony

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

This is why I don't fit ****tt like this, setting curves bollokks, never have to do any of that stuff on Platinums, Logic's, Optimax, Isars ect, at the end of the day the damn things only have to heat water, which either goes to taps or radiators, "thinking themselves to be wise, they became foolish" somewhere in the Bible, and not photocopied.
One of the reasons I don't fit Ariston's, too much fannying around, and have you seen the display on the one the rep is tarting about, how long before "Houston, we have a problem" you get some 75 year old pensioner to understand this craaapp

 

[navtec]

the error code was related to the fan and that was replaced and it worked OK for a while before it flagged up another code, which i cant remember and that part was also replaced.

Obviously my father is fond of Geminox boilers and the previous one we had under the name "microstar" was an excellent boiler. It had a tank inside the boiler and allowed you to use the hot water and central heating at one time. NOW the new version does not have tank, so everytime you open the hot tap , you can hear the boiler switch on/off many times, that is not efficient, that is rediculous.

Well its too late to change the boiler now, just a big problem as i was operating the boiler this morning and even though i switch the QAA 73 control panel to stand by the boiler continued to pump hot water to the central heating .... WHAT A CRAZY boiler. enough said.

 

[Agile]

Its French!

What do you expect?

 

[mehran]

should of installed a heatline quality Turkish engineering

i take it this boiler is a combi?

 

[navtec]

yes, its definately a combi boiler, but when you make purchase of this boiler evinox do not give you good advice. When we purchased this boiler, they said something along the lines of " this is one of the best boilers available and the most efficient, but they should also said, " you need a computer science degree to operate it" !!!

 

[geminoxowner]

hello every body I been a Geminox THX5-25M75 owner since 90ish when a the company in hayes london when burst and brought this model for around £600 was a good value at the time .
Having got a degree in electronics I did my research and it came down to the conclution that it was this model or the german vitron by Viessman. I finally arrived to the conclusion that I should choose the geminox as it has a stainless steel exchanger . and most wear and tear parts are standard parts.
the Viessman saleman was telling me the viessmman was the most effient one as its has a aluminum alloy heat exchanger and will not corrode . I disagreed with him , having got A levels in physics and chemistry the aluminum will get eated away by the acid produced by the condensing gases. After debating for one hour I finally gave up and walked away from him . I was right,after two years Viessmann told me they have replaced that model by another as they had problems with the heat exchanger.( they only admitted this when I mentioned that encouter of their saleman few years ago at a heating exhibition) Why dont they hire proper design engineers in the first place ?.
I have maintained my boiler for at least 12 years its still going strong.

Truely speaking this is not a combination boiler . A combination boiler has a diverter value with a rubber sheath , this tend to fail and needs replacing once a year .and flow rate is not high as the DHW is only 15mm
the geminox has a three port value like a normal vented central heating system. This has not failed me for the last 12 years.It has a buit in stainless steel pressuried unvented hotwater tank for DHW . the problem its very small and last only about 10 to 20 minutes but the recovery time is quick.It also depends one what the DHW TEMperature you set to.but the DHW is 22mm so you get a better flowrate.So you get the full 25Kw of gas pwer to your DHW if you are using your show. the 3port value that geminox uses has no mid postion like your standard heating system. this is why you have DHW or heating only. after 10 to 2o minutes of DHW . You may improve this time by incresing the DHW stoarge temp and using a mixture at the taps.
about three years ago, the now main importer who are in surrey who serviced the boiler only once, as they did a co and n2o reading and re adjusted the gas pressure regulator .
He told me that the automatic air vent needs replacing as its leaking and wanted to charge me an arm and a leg , I told him forget it as I will fix it myself as its only a few quils down B & Q .

A few days ago my pressure sensor has gone . When I rang the firm in surrey , they say the pressure sensor is not made anymore . Instead they are offering a modification . what is that does is that it basically the old sensor is replaced by a resistor electrically ,. and they supply you with a manometer with a capllary copper tube . which will give the pressure but the mod WILL NOT SHUT YOUR BoiLER DOWN AUTMATICALLY IF THERE IS A SYSTEM LEAK . You have to manually check your boiler with the manometer and shut it down yourself. I fine this hard to believe Its a great safety risk Anywhere i try to drain the sytem down this weekend and clean this sensor and hopefully it will work. I am thinking of making a complaint to the gas safety council about this modifcation.


When I brought the system I brought both the outside temperature sensor QAC31 and the room sensor QAA70 , I think the new once are QAA73.

when you have these optional sensors the weather compensation is automatic . but you have to tell the system whether its underfloor heating or raditors you have. this is where the heating curve comes in. In any case I found that if unplug the sytem and switch on after about 30 minutes. the system will fire up and learn itself after a few days > i learned this the hard way and i find it it doing this everytime there is a sudden cold spell like the last few days . The sytem only learns itself you have both the outside temp sensor and the room temp sensor.

This system is out of date now It only has modulating flame but not a modulating pump .

for the future I am going to replace the factory fitted Grunfos pump with a Grunfos alpha2 modulating pump. and also add a magnaclean unit on the return hoping this will improve the efficency .


I hope this answers some questions about this boiler

Please note I also added extra expansion tanks each for the heating and hotwater.


NB if you need both central heating and DHW at the same time . You can buy the boiler on its own and buy you own unvented stainless steel cyclinder and use a standard heating set up using a 3 port mid position value. Those days when I install my system I had to buy separately the pressure and temperature relieve valve but nowdays they are not allowed to sell these unvented cyclinders without these buildin for safety reasons.

Previous to this I had a leblanc condensing combination with a aluimium heat exchanger . now you know want happen to it . It started leaking and replaced twice under warranty and also had to replace the diverter valve The condensing water discharge copper pipe also got eated away. This was my fault as I install it myself . So I had to replace it with plastic one. and guess what leblanc was the parent company of Geminox and still is, in France. But having said this I am quite happy with the Geminox boiler. Leblanc /Geminox went burst in UK( or their main importers) when I brought the Geminox boiler that why I got it very cheap.

I did get a technical manual with this. It was one of the condition that I get this also when purchasing this boiler . It has all the error codes on it.I will post it at a later date.

 

[navtec]

Hi, spoke to the technician at geminox and they did advise the boiler will work with hot water and central heating without having to switch off the water option on the qa control panel. The boiler heats the plate up to the temperature set for the dhw, once this is achieved by the boiler it moves on to the heating.

Problem I have is the boiler carries on heating the water, it warms the plate but then after few minutes the temperature of the plate drops and then re heats again. This continues to occur many times before the central heating comes on after 40minz.

Engineer advised something is cooling the plate down and he thinks its due to not having a non return valve fitted onto the hot water, cold water is going back and cooling the plate and this will continue to happen. This will increase my gas bills through the roof, does anyone know if this is true, as you can see the boilers operational codes telling that the hot water is being heated even though no one has it on .

 

[geminoxowner]

hi navtec.
here are the operation code( ie alarm led is off and the 8 led segment displaying the code is on ( not flashing) all the time for my THR 5-25 M75. HOPE IS THE SAME FOR YOUR BOILER.


0--awaiting demand for dhw or heating
1--shunt6 not present switch open
2&3--fan speed rise time/pre-ventilation
4--preignition -ignition
5-- flame presence verification
6-- burner on dhw
7-- burner on heating
8-- end of demand for dhw or heating
9-- return to initial postion reinitise gas controlbox parametres(fan off)

here are the codes if the 8 segment display flashes with alarm led off

1--boiler potsetting absent( ie set at zero)-----priorty 1
2-- hotwater potsetting absent-----------------------1
4 TUV fuction active----------------------------------1
5 sweep function active-------------------------------1
7 regulator off fuction active----------------------------1
8 dhw sensor open circuit-----------------------------1
0 dhw sensor close circuit-----------------------------1
A anti legionella fuction active-------------------------2
C sweep closed after reset /unlock----------------------1
d TUV button closed after rest/unlock--------------------1
E forced intermission active----------------------------2
F warmer /cooler correction executed -------------------1
L revert to standard values------------------------------1
P Q1 heating cicuit pump kick active---------------------2
U q3 dhw or bypass valve kick active--------------------2




therfor Navtech if should be showing 6 for hotwater or 7 for heating witout flashing.

hope this helps

here are the error codes ie alarm led on and 8 segment dispaly flashing.

0---incorrect fan speed during preventilation-----check parameter DA3
2 OVERheat thermostat or flue gas stat activated----check water pressure and flow

4--flame fault signal

5 incorrect fan speed at maximuim load----check DA4

6 Fan speed rise too long ------check fan can rotate freely

A maximum fan speed exceeded during preventilation----check mains votage not too high, check flue nor fan air inlet not blocked check DA

H boiler sensor open circuit----replace boiler sensor
L boiler sensor short circuit -----replace sensor
C boiler water pressure too low --check pressure sensor is working and or water pressure in the heating system.