Get a NAS (to save you losing all your family pics etc)

Anyway that's enough from me at the moment, maybe Ignorant or whatever her/his name is has another day off and fancies pulling this to pieces :)

Festive, reading back, and as you don't know me, I accept my post could be taken as a dig. This really wasn't my intention as I only really try to post useful stuff.

The original intention was to point out that RAID isn't an ideal primary backup solution, but I accept that it didn't quite come across that way.

Please accept my apology if I have caused offense.

Ian

Hi Ian,

ah no worries, you did make some valid comments on the detail missing, my retort was merely challenging you to divulge more as you clearly have a high level of some IT flavour/s lurking there.
Not often someone has the balls to come on these forums and offer a pipe of peace, respect that man :)
Still would like to hear your thoughts sometime on what is a primary backup solution for todays average joe with a trailor load of multimedia stored between various devices.

cheers to friday!
 
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Hi Ian,

ah no worries, you did make some valid comments on the detail missing, my retort was merely challenging you to divulge more as you clearly have a high level of some IT flavour/s lurking there.
Not often someone has the balls to come on these forums and offer a pipe of peace, respect that man :)
Still would like to hear your thoughts sometime on what is a primary backup solution for todays average joe with a trailor load of multimedia stored between various devices.

cheers to friday!

It's a difficult one to answer and i've restarted my reply several times in order to give you a definitive answer, which I think is probably impossible.

It lies in the realms of questions like "What's the best software/hardware to do ..."., and you only have to scan this forum to find that there are endless debates on the various "..." bits.

i'm kind of old school and come from an era, like many, where there were no PC's, repair centres or freely available "experts", and if you wanted to achieve/install/maintain something, you had to be imaginitive and understand or "trial and error" the available technology in order to make it so.

Unfortunately, stuff has now become cheap and more available and every manufacturer will tell you that their product is the best. The "average Joe", to use your words, doesn't really stand a chance and will generally believe the claims put to them by the manufacturer.

Let me use an example from tomathy's post regarding the ReadyNAS duo. One of the features claims

"•Never lose data due to drive failure by simply adding a second drive"

I'm sure I am not alone when I say that I have seen RAID fail and when it does, it can fail bigtime. You could be left with a pile of electronics and no data.

It would probably be more truthful to say:

"•Reduce the possibility of data loss due to drive failure by simply adding a second drive".

With backups, the idiom "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" is probably the best thing to keep in mind. Keep your important data in several locations so that, in the event of that really unexpected failure, you can get it back from another source.

I can remember a time when a 1GB drive would cost you more than a seriously high spec. machine would cost you today. Now it's cheap enough to have several external drives to replicate your data to.

NAS is a great idea if you want to share your data. RAID is great for reducing down times and the combination of the two can also be extremely useful. However, it you are relying on it as your sole backup resource, you are kind of accepting that the technology will never let you down by relying on what can be considered a black box.

I think this thread has covered the need for further backup considerations and those with a reasonable amount of knowledge accept these things and won't be relying on this single form of technology to keep us safe.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, unless i've missed it, is how good are our backups. We truly never know until we try to restore them. I've not experienced it myself, but I know of others who have relied on their backups being sound when indeed, they were not. When the crunch happened, the restore failed and they ended up with nothing.

I suppose my post could be considered as scare mongering, but again, it's a generalization and each person will have a different idea of how important their data is. I guess there are no hard and fast rules, just something to bear in mind when considering what approach to take.

I suppose it's like saying that flying is the safest form of transportation. You just hope you are not on one from that Friday afternoon engine build :D.

Ian now steps off his soap box and reaches for his Friday evening pint.
 
Thanks for the post Igorian, i agree about the fact that you never will know how good that backup is unless you test it regularly!

Which is why i switched to NAS, i had a load of pics on some old rewritable CD's they started to delaminate, and i lost the lot. Yes reflective coating had started to peel from the disc. I figured if each hard disk lasts a year im spending £50/year on a 1TB solution which has instant access and backup. But yes it doesn't account for complete failure which could occur on any backup device!
 
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Which is why i switched to NAS, i had a load of pics on some old rewritable CD's they started to delaminate, and i lost the lot. Yes reflective coating had started to peel from the disc.

Yep, I've learned that lesson the hard way too.

Whilst I still have HDD's from the mid 90's that are spinning merrily and a usb caddy to plonk them in for easy (and fast!) read/write, the DVD's I bought just a few years ago are unreliable and delaminating, even stored in the cool and dark.

Not a reliable backup medium, if such a thing exists.
 
Sorry if it's already been covered but this is what I bang on about on every forum so I just paste the same comment in every forum -

RAID is for resiliency not backup.

If the RAID controller errors out it may blow both sides of the array casuing corruptions on both disks.

If you have a fire or flood or theft - you will still have lost everything with a single device solution.

Keep it simple. Use basic volumes on your NAS and backup to a removeable device and store elsewhere.

Resiliency is for time critical applications\purposes ie business\retail etc where downtime costs money. Resiliency is not a backup and resiliency and backup are partners.
 
HI drummerbod thanks for your input, please read back through the thread, weve discussed alternatives and ideal scenarios such as offsite backup, ive already discussed the down side of a dual NAS theft/fire/failure etc.

A common failure for losing data at home isn't just fire or theft, id say the majority is medium failure/corruption where resiliency comes into play. Its not just about backing up incase your laptop is stolen or incinerated, but you've pointed out yourself resiliency and backup ARE partners?

Bar offsite backup solutions, i dont think anyone has really popped up with a viable practical every day solution to backing up your live ever changing data. Please feel free to list alternatives.
Im not aware of devices that are able to trigger their own incremental backups are there?

Up to now my DUAL NAS has never once failed (4.5 years), one of the discs has though.
 
I do a weekly backup from my NAS (running basic volumes) in my house to my NAS in my shed. The NAS in the shed fires up for 2 hours every Monday.

I use append when backing up ie existing files are not changed - only additions are made. So if a corruption takes place on my main NAS this is not duplicated on the backup. Same for deletion.

You are correct - the biggest risk is hardware failure not theft\fire\flood.

Resiliency is for time critical applications ie retail business, where a even a 10 minute downtime can be disastrous. This is where the likes of RAID5 + HS come in. You wouldn't notice a disk failure. But then I've seen faulty RAID controllers wipe volumes by dumping blocks of erroneous data all over the place.

Resiliency has no place in the domestic situation as time is generally not an issue. If you ran a backup task everyday then what is the worst you could lose from a disk failure. One days worth of what? Pictures? A letter? A couple of music files?

I don't know of a realtime sync\backup program that works well I'm afraid. There maybe one out there.

For my wifes documents on her PC I use MS Synctoy so when she logs in it does a compare and append to a mapped drive on a NAS.

It's all good fun. :LOL:
 
Hey it certainly is, some good tips there too nice one.
Yes i was just discussing with a few others on here about taking my old NAS to my parents pad and replicating from my home NAS to remote using Rsync . But yeah another good alternative i see you're using.

And no id never advocate Raid5 (block level striping + parity) i thought striping was good for massive data bandwidth/throughput (databases) which indeed i doubt your average user is ever going to have 100+ pooled connections firing complex search args at any given time :) (Raid5 also requires a minimum of 3disks for the uneducated out there!)

And to clarify for others i use

RAID1

RAID 1 (mirroring without parity or striping), data is written identically to multiple disks (a "mirrored set"). Although many implementations create sets of 2 disks, sets may contain 3 or more disks. Array provides fault tolerance from disk errors or failures and continues to operate as long as at least one drive in the mirrored set is functioning. With appropriate operating system support, there can be increased read performance, and only a minimal write performance reduction. Using RAID 1 with a separate controller for each disk is sometimes called duplexing.
 
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