Glow Worm Ultracom - second diagnostic level password???
- Thread starter Rog200455
- Start date
First I would like to say that I am not a heating engineer rog but I do have a ultracom 30cxi with climapro and weather compensation so have a bit experience in fine tuning the system (unfortunatly the "heating engineer" that ran the gas and commisioned it done such a poor job that when I got home from work I found that not only did the heating not work correctly but he was asking my girlfriend how to switch the heating on with the climapro lol.)
Fortunatly I fitted the system myself and only payed a very small amount for the gas to be ran and the benchmark to be signed so I got the value for money I ws expecting. (oh am I bad lol).
I would like to say this is not a knock at heating engineers (some of the guys on this site actually care about their trade, the fact that they are willing to put their time towards this forum tells me that, im a sad git like that myself, I know I am in the top 5% of my game (i am also very modest)) but it is extemely hard to find good calibre tradesmen who know what they are doing with the latest technology.
Anyway back to the point which is (i have almost forgot) if your heating range rate is right as suggested your problem could be simply that you do not have enough bypass tolerence in your system thus when the boiler ramps to quick the heating flow gets to hot to quick and then goes into overrun. A slower ramp rate will not show this problem.
You may expect the boiler to lock out and show a fault code if this was the case but I know from experience (limited I admit) that this boiler will not do this (internal bypass?).
Make sure you have a rad with no TRV fitted and that the lockshield is open as a bypass.
If thats not the problem then fine I am only sharing my experience.
Hope I have not offended anyone by posting a safe option that rog can try without fear of blowing himself up.
Fortunatly I fitted the system myself and only payed a very small amount for the gas to be ran and the benchmark to be signed so I got the value for money I ws expecting. (oh am I bad lol).
I would like to say this is not a knock at heating engineers (some of the guys on this site actually care about their trade, the fact that they are willing to put their time towards this forum tells me that, im a sad git like that myself, I know I am in the top 5% of my game (i am also very modest)) but it is extemely hard to find good calibre tradesmen who know what they are doing with the latest technology.
Anyway back to the point which is (i have almost forgot) if your heating range rate is right as suggested your problem could be simply that you do not have enough bypass tolerence in your system thus when the boiler ramps to quick the heating flow gets to hot to quick and then goes into overrun. A slower ramp rate will not show this problem.
You may expect the boiler to lock out and show a fault code if this was the case but I know from experience (limited I admit) that this boiler will not do this (internal bypass?).
Make sure you have a rad with no TRV fitted and that the lockshield is open as a bypass.
If thats not the problem then fine I am only sharing my experience.
Hope I have not offended anyone by posting a safe option that rog can try without fear of blowing himself up.
Oh dear, another DIYer who knows more than 95% of the professionals!
Having said that the general low standard of many installers is so low that its not that difficult !
I think, but its not totally clear, that he agrees with me that the boiler should be range rated to overcome the cycling problem.
Whats disappointing is that the OP is so convinced that he knows more than anyone about his problem that he is not even willing to try my advice.
Yet again, I feel that we are derogated to the scenario of hopeless plumbers who left school at 16 and were too thick to do anything else apart from plumbing!
I am clearly wasting my time trying to give any advice here!
Tony
Having said that the general low standard of many installers is so low that its not that difficult !
I think, but its not totally clear, that he agrees with me that the boiler should be range rated to overcome the cycling problem.
Whats disappointing is that the OP is so convinced that he knows more than anyone about his problem that he is not even willing to try my advice.
Yet again, I feel that we are derogated to the scenario of hopeless plumbers who left school at 16 and were too thick to do anything else apart from plumbing!
I am clearly wasting my time trying to give any advice here!
Tony
D
Deleted member 105431
no, not gonna give the desired effect.
Thanks to all for the further replies. I did range rate the boiler, as suggested by Agile (with the settings provided by dangermouse). It did not help, as however low you set the max output (and I tried it at minimum) the boiler still fires with "three flames" showing in the LCD display, when it first comes back on. This situation persists for about 30 seconds before it goes into the correct control mode, by which time the water temp has ramped up and the boiler goes into anti-cycling. I am not a heating engineer but I do know a bit about software control and a simple firmware change would cure this. Unfortunately there is no way of doing this, so we have to look at other things. I am sure that Raydar has made a good suggestion re the bypass. This boiler has an adjustable bypass, so perhaps I should open that up.
What is d1 and what is d0 ?
Is everyone sure that its not possible to set the initial 30 secs to a low figure?
Most boilers start at minimum and then ramp up to the max set CH value after a while to see if that much heat is really needed.
Tony
Is everyone sure that its not possible to set the initial 30 secs to a low figure?
Most boilers start at minimum and then ramp up to the max set CH value after a while to see if that much heat is really needed.
Tony
d1 is water pump overun time for CH mode
d0 is heating part load.
When the boiler comes back after HW demand, it does indeed start low and ramp up slowly. Unfortunately, when it comes back in CH mode, it starts at about 60% of max.
That is why I was asking if the level 2 menu would allow adjustment of additional parameters, such as you describe.
d0 is heating part load.
When the boiler comes back after HW demand, it does indeed start low and ramp up slowly. Unfortunately, when it comes back in CH mode, it starts at about 60% of max.
That is why I was asking if the level 2 menu would allow adjustment of additional parameters, such as you describe.
It would be nice if it was possible to reset that.
Unfortunately the tech help guys are not usually trained very highly in the more technical aspects.
I am not sure where those boilers were designed but in theory there is a design team somewhere who would know exactly what you are talking about and how to set it. You could always write in and ask in a letter. Phone calls will not usually get you anywhere nowadays as the girls are trained NOT to pass on calls.
Its possible its a design fault or an individual boiler pcb fault or if you were really lucky it might be available to reset in a higher level menu.
My natural feeling is that the bypass may be too far OPEN and causes the return to get too hot too quickly causing the boiler to turn off. You could get an idea about this by feeling the internal return temperature and compare it with the external return temperature.
Tony
Unfortunately the tech help guys are not usually trained very highly in the more technical aspects.
I am not sure where those boilers were designed but in theory there is a design team somewhere who would know exactly what you are talking about and how to set it. You could always write in and ask in a letter. Phone calls will not usually get you anywhere nowadays as the girls are trained NOT to pass on calls.
Its possible its a design fault or an individual boiler pcb fault or if you were really lucky it might be available to reset in a higher level menu.
My natural feeling is that the bypass may be too far OPEN and causes the return to get too hot too quickly causing the boiler to turn off. You could get an idea about this by feeling the internal return temperature and compare it with the external return temperature.
Tony
Interesting theory, Tony. You can monitor the flow and return temps via the LCD display. The flow ramps up quickly and the return is quite slow to increase. I may as well try a technical question to Glow Worm, via their website facility.
Thats not what I wanted you to look at as its only the temperature at the return sensor.
I am interested in the return temp from the rads versus the return temp into the HE ( i.e. after the addition of the hot flow from the built in bypass. )
Tony
Rog - I think your best bet is to call GW and hope you get someone good. If you persist with your questions they should get the idea you aren't a dumb clutz and help you.
I wouldn't be too optimistic though. There's a very good chance that the technical highferlootin expert specialist you speak to, WILL be a dumb clutz. Even if he isn't, you might get a real answer, such as one I had recently, something like:
"Ok mate, I know you're Corgi regd and I understand your problem, but if we gave most Corgi people the sort of info you're looking for, they'd blow themselves up, so we can't."
Me: "Err, suppose I call one of your engineers out, then?"
"Oh he'd just change parts and go."
Me: "Would HE understand the problem?"
<<<silence>>>
Worcester Bosch, by the way
I wouldn't be too optimistic though. There's a very good chance that the technical highferlootin expert specialist you speak to, WILL be a dumb clutz. Even if he isn't, you might get a real answer, such as one I had recently, something like:
"Ok mate, I know you're Corgi regd and I understand your problem, but if we gave most Corgi people the sort of info you're looking for, they'd blow themselves up, so we can't."
Me: "Err, suppose I call one of your engineers out, then?"
"Oh he'd just change parts and go."
Me: "Would HE understand the problem?"
<<<silence>>>
Worcester Bosch, by the way
D
Deleted member 105431
the ign system requires the fan speed to be at 70% of maximum to allow reliable flame spread accross the burner. You cannot get the boiler to fire on low rate then ramp up, it must be the reverse. The warmstart/preheat function is what I believe your getting confused with, this can be disabled.
I have preheat disabled. It still behaves differently when firing after HW demand, as I mentioned above. In that case it fires with only "one flame" showing on the LCD display. There is no problem then.
D
Deleted member 105431
there is no problem with the boiler, I suggest you leave it as it is. They are very good boilers and I'm sure it'll serve you well.
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