Going to do a Central heating flush my self

[CrazeUK]

Hey Guys.
Background: I bought a house a about 4 years ago, the house was built in 1999. It had installed a copper cylinder boiler system with an over flow tank. There are 7 radiators in 7 rooms. 3 Bedrooms, Upstairs Bathroom, DOwnstairs toilet, Kitchen and lounge.

a year after we moved in we got sick of the trickle of water from the hot tap so decided to have the boiler replaced.

We got a Baxi 105 HE boiler installed. At the time the off duty Britihs Gas engineer took out a load of pipe from around the copper cylinder.

He asked me to add some inhibitor to the system 2 weeks after it had been installed, which i forgot.

I then took cover from BG.

After a summer of not turning the system on, i found that my lounge radiator (double) does not heat up. I called BG, they came took it off the wall and emptied the radiator, sure enough i got brown and black sludge.

They said the system needs a flush, which i didnt believe as the remainder of the system heats perfectly. After this i found the kitchen radiator also didnt heat properly. I called a third part corgi engineer and he said its the valves and to call BG to change them. They didnt.

AFter arguing it out they still havent done anything so i cancelled my cover.
It also took them 3 engineers to come out (at the same time) and tell me i need a flush, at £650 its something i cant afford right now.

I wouldnt say i am a plumber but i can do the basics, change taps, take radiators of the wall, empty and fill the system etc.

Bringing me to my DIY job...
I have contacted HSS and they will supply me a Norstrom Pro Flush machine for £90+vat for the weekend.

1. Is this something i should do my self?
2. Does anyone have any advice?
3. If all the radiators except 2 dont work, is this a flush issue?
4. Is there anything else i need as a part of it?
5. does anyone know if another hire company may rent a better machine?
6. should i fit a magna clean?

Any help is much appreciated.
Thanks

 

[cantaloup63]

Before getting a machine, try the taking rads off the wall and flush out in the garden. Then add some desludger and run the system for a week or so before draining it down and refilling, adding inhibitor.

And yes, a magnaclean or spirovent is a worthwhile investment.

 

[JohnD]

If it's 11 years old, and has no chemical in it, and is (was?) open vented, then it is likely to have quitew a bit of sediment in it.

If you are going to the trouble of taking off the radiators and hosing them out, you might as well renew all the rad valves and fit new TRVs while you are about it, not much extra work. If it was me I would fit a Magnaclean or Sprirovent or the Sentinel equivalent beforehand, and run Sentinel X400 in it for 4 weeks before doing the drain and hosepipe thing. The X400 will loosen sludge and make it easier to get out, and the filter will trap it.

Magnaclean is spectacular at collecting black sludge but inclined to leak in time. You will get a 2-year guarantee if you buy it retail and by that time it won't matter since it will have captured all the old sludge, and you will have remembered to add inhibitor so there won't be much more. Spirovent is better made but not as spectacular in use.

I am a householder not a pro.

 

[Agile]

After a summer of not turning the system on, i found that my lounge radiator (double) does not heat up. I called BG, they came took it off the wall and emptied the radiator, sure enough i got brown and black sludge.

They said the system needs a flush, which i didnt believe as the remainder of the system heats perfectly. After this i found the kitchen radiator also didnt heat properly. I called a third part corgi engineer and he said its the valves and to call BG to change them. They didnt.

Thanks

Some people will argue black is white!

After seeing the black sludge you then would not admit that it needs flushing.

Now you have accepted that it needs a flush! I wonder why?

I do not expect a DIYer to have the skill to do proper power flushing very well. A professional knows how to do it and how to choose the best chemicals.

You will get almost as good results doing just a chemical flush over a period of time. A power flush is much quicker and more approipriate for when quick results are needed.

Tony Glazier

 

[cantaloup63]

He asked me to add some inhibitor to the system 2 weeks after it had been installed

Could any of the pro's on here explain why the need for a time delay before adding inhibitor?

 

[bhm1712]

fernox system flusher helped my system no end, i used to have to bleed rads daily, the water was almost fluorescent orange and the smell it gave off was incredible when bleeding. I cant remember the figures, but i used it for the max time it says on the bottle. I then drained it all out and let the system refill. I repeated this process of refilling and draining everyday for a week, with the system being used for at least 4-5 hours a day. After the week was over, i refilled and added inhibitor. I have not had to bleed radiators at all this year. I have even tried to in disbelief but water comes out straight away. The smell has gone and the water is now sort of clear with a brown tinge to it.

The living room rad warms up too!!! bonus.

Worth a go.

 

[CrazeUK]

Sorry i should have added. When i got the third party to come out he said if the water in the rest of the system was clear (which it was), and the radiator was filling up and getting hot then not reheating, then the issue was the valves and the radiator it self.

Also none of the other radiators prior to that had issues, even now all the upstairs radiators, and one of the downstairs ones is perfectly fine.

I also go round bleeding all the radiators in the house twice a year, but none of them let out air. Although i cant check the main lounge one, which seems to be the one that had the rust.

11yr old system: When the new boiler was installed about 3-4 years ago it was powerflushed.

Powerflush vs Chemical flush: unfortunately due to the current weather, and my health being intermitent i need a quick fix.

Magnaclean / Sprirovent: i will definitly get someone to add this to the system, does it have to be added strait after the clean?

An additional idea: do you think its an idea to replace the main problem radiator (lounge) altogether, especially seen as i cant actually bleed one of the panels on it. Also i would replace the valves.

 

[gas_man_gaz]

if ya don't trust the bg lad wen he says it needs flushing why are ya planning on flushing it?
if ya trust the independent rgi wen he says its just the rad valves why aren't ya just replacing them? just out of curiosity how much did he charge ya to come out and tell ya its the valves?

i personally wouldn't bother hiring a flushing machine, good results are achievable using the cold mains

 

[CrazeUK]

I guess its desperation.
I actually forgot that i was going see what happens with the main rad amd valves replaced first.

I originally contacted BG told them what the indipendant said (i had the system cover) they said get us 3 written quotes and we will change the radiator (this was going to cost call out charges for them).

Also on the note here BG left it says they wouldnt change the radiator until the system was flushed.

I thought for the sake of £100 (in the scheme of the BG £600) at least i know that the rest of the pipes and rads are definitly clear.

The Indipendant didnt charge me anything, i think he felt sorry for me because i had a head brace drilled into my head for reconstructive face surgery. He did offer to do the work for me, but told me seen as i pay BG £23 a month, i should get them to change it all.

 

[cantaloup63]

Flushed and power flushed are different things

 

[CrazeUK]

Flushed and power flushed are different things

Sorry i stand corrected where i have said flushed i mean powerflushed (using the machines).

 

[coytech]

hi
just reading your problem etc
when your heating is on are the defective rads still cold in the centre bottom? if so this is def sludge/oxide which can be removed by taking off rad etc and may need someone to help you and flush through outside with hose. BUT it should be done with a machine and other tools on each rad in turn to clean etc the whole system and as advised elsewhere a magnetic filter such as MAGNATEC /TF1 WHICH ARE WORTH THEIR WEIGHT IN GOLD fitted (which also protects the plate heat exchanger )then when completed the system must be treated
it does take a while to do properly but you get the results
i dont know about £600 or so though.

 

[Agile]

He asked me to add some inhibitor to the system 2 weeks after it had been installed

Could any of the pro's on here explain why the need for a time delay before adding inhibitor?

Its a common "trick" used by cowboys to extract the maximum cash from the pumper and make the minimum expenditure on purchases.

"Give me £300 now and you can save yourself £60 by getting the inhibitor yourself!"

 

[DP]

OP, does the lounge radiator NOT heat up at all (i,e, the inlet pipe below the valve is cold) or does it heat up but there are cold spots in it. Do you have a TRV on that radiator?

There is no reason why you cannot flush the system yourself, but to flush a combi with a power flusher will require you to have some understanding of the system which I think is lacking as you are asking basic questions. You can power flush the system under supervision me thinks.

On the other hand, chemical cleansing will be up your street but it depends if your system needs cleaning or there are other issues stopping the rads from heating up.

You say the water that comes out of the radiator when you bleed them twice a year (only god knows why people do this!) is clear. Term sediment suggests particles, so these would be found at the base of the radiators in the valleys not at the top.

I am also astounded by the fact that a combi has been fitted instead of preferred two zone HW/ CH system.

Why was the heating turned off in the summer? Do you not have a thermostat to look at the ambient temperature to then keep the system off until required? Heating kicks in when ambient temperature drops (which in summer it rarely will) not necessarily because winter has arrived.

 

[dcawkwell]

It's unlikely it really needs much.
I suggest the lazy way and simply open the drain cock and leave the
boiler running with the system filling up. Maybe do this a couple
of times after the system has had chance to circulate again.

Definately the valves usually all they need is a tap with a hammer. BG are useless and just try and sell new boilers
and powerflushes.