Government tries to throw blame on care homes

[JohnD]

Do you think this isn't true:

"NHS doctors and district nurses withdrew from care homes, hospitals transferred patients without Covid-19 tests to care homes and the government finally woke up to the problem six weeks late"

or do you think it occurred contrary to government policy?

 

[JohnD]

Do you think this isn't true?

"According to NHS England, 25,000 patients were discharged from hospitals to care homes between March 17 and April 16."

 

[IT Minion]

If you read what was actually said. He’s not blaming the care sector. He’s saying lessons can be learned.

That's true for all but one line. That line being that ..

We discovered too many care homes didn’t really follow the procedures in the way that they could have but we’re learning lessons the whole time

Which is saying the lesson he learnt was that care homes failed to follow procedures and (it is implied) that they're at fault for some of the deaths.

Given the procedures mandated for care homes were so lax at the time, I also don't see how they could have failed to follow them. The ones that refused NHS discharges were probably the ones taking the best care of their patients. Equally the ones that went well over the government guidance on infection control and PPE probably did a lot better.

 

[Mottie]

.

 

[SirGalahad]

If you read what was actually said. He’s not blaming the care sector. He’s saying lessons can be learned.

Many care homes are well funded, profitable private institutions. They charge high margins and some, failed their staff and clients.

"too many care homes didn't really follow the procedures" during the coronavirus outbreak.

"But to be honest with you, if this is genuinely his view, I think we're almost entering a Kafkaesque alternative reality where the government sets the rules, we follow them, they don't like the results, they then deny setting the rules and blame the people that were trying to do their best."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53315178

There really is no defending his crass remark, whether it was another bojoism slip of the tongue or his usual waffly style of talking - it was plain wrong.

The Government sets the guidelines and procedures - ergo that's why you have CQC checking these homes on a regular basis.

The testing procedure has been chaotic and now they are not releasing the number of people being tested.

It's incompetence at the highest level.

 

[Notch7]

Its awful how care home managers insisted hospitals returned patients to them with Covid.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Many care homes are well funded, profitable private institutions. They charge high margins and some, failed their staff and clients.

That I know from personal experience is very true.. SWMBO needed a new job, so looked into working as a carer, as at least a temporary fill in job and at the beginning of the outbreak. No problem at all getting a job as a mobile carer, until it dawned on her what was expected of her. She was expected to spend 2 hours with a client, then travel on to the next one, where she might spend 2 hours travelling to the far side of the local city. The travel costs would not be refunded, the travel time would be unpaid. All at minimum wage. So she could spend 10/12 hours out of the home, get paid for five or six hours and spend several pounds of her earnings on fares.

I was appalled that any company could get away with treating any employees like that. She did one client visit, realised what was going on and walked out.

The only PPE supplied, being a box of gloves.

 

[Notch7]

it is interesting the government are criticising privatised care homes -the sector is a great example of how free markets work:
they are run to make profits for shareholders, fine in some industries not good in healthcare or care settings.

having researched local care home in detail for family reasons, I have a bit of insight into the big players mentality.

I have to say though almost every care home I spoke to, all wanted a test before they would accept discharge from hospital.
Unlike the hospital who didn't know at the time how to even arrange a test.

 

[Notch7]

No problem at all getting a job as a mobile carer, until it dawned on her what was expected of her. She was expected to spend 2 hours with a client, then travel on to the next one, where she might spend 2 hours travelling to the far side of the local city. The travel costs would not be refunded, the travel time would be unpaid. All at minimum wage. So she could spend 10/12 hours out of the home, get paid for five or six hours and spend several pounds of her earnings on fares.

that sounds like domiciliary care rather than in a care home?

Around here many care agencies charge £19 for a half hour visit. Even then I dont think the care agency make much money, its a very labour intensive business.

 

[ajohn]

There is no records of if people moved out of hospital were tested or had cv19. There are care homes where those did not cause the outbreak as well. It got in some other way. Spread in hospitals was low at that point. People sometimes seem to think that hospitals are full of people who can only be discharged to care homes. Not what I see when I visit one even in geriatric wards and even entire buildings used for that.

So left with a mixed bag

When to lockdown - maybe just care homes and other variations in that area
PHE availability
Testing with a test that can give negative results when some one has the virus even when there has been some lung damage and not having enough capacity.
Procedures

Odd factors such as some care home workers work in several. They have some one in for a number of hours and they then go to another for more hours etc.

Would some care homes go for the blame game. Probably a mixed bag in that respect as well. Their beds need to be empty to take more people and they aren't free.

Hospital procedures have changed now - all wear masks all of the time. We have been through 3 separate epidemic rates. Hospitals, care homes and general public. A care home really needs most if not all of the hospital PHE procedures. The NHS wasn't really sorted out. I don't think ours is either really. I read a recent gov paper.

 

[ajohn]

Around here many care agencies charge £19 for a half hour visit. Even then I dont think the care agency make much money, its a very labour intensive business.

It depends on how many carers the company runs and the post you quoted is 100% correct. It's even worse when a local council organises it. They put the work out for contract every 12 months. That means that other people in a family need to keep a close watch on what goes on each time the carer is changed.

 

[motorbiking]

That I know from personal experience is very true.. SWMBO needed a new job, so looked into working as a carer, as at least a temporary fill in job and at the beginning of the outbreak. No problem at all getting a job as a mobile carer, until it dawned on her what was expected of her. She was expected to spend 2 hours with a client, then travel on to the next one, where she might spend 2 hours travelling to the far side of the local city. The travel costs would not be refunded, the travel time would be unpaid. All at minimum wage. So she could spend 10/12 hours out of the home, get paid for five or six hours and spend several pounds of her earnings on fares.

I was appalled that any company could get away with treating any employees like that. She did one client visit, realised what was going on and walked out.

The only PPE supplied, being a box of gloves.

btw that is actually illegal. https://www.gov.uk/minimum-wage-different-types-work

 

[JP_]

All kicking off now.

Maybe we should blame all nurses and teachers, they obviously didn't spot symptoms and act quick enough. And all OAPs too - I mean, they have nothing to do except watch the news, so knew it was coming, why didn't they isolate sooner? Have we blamed immigrants yet? Oh yeah, the hard working ones (the type that we say we want?) in Leicester. The government is running out of people to blame!

Boris Johnson will blame anybody and everybody except himself. He's proving to be a real asshole.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

that sounds like domiciliary care rather than in a care home?

Around here many care agencies charge £19 for a half hour visit. Even then I dont think the care agency make much money, its a very labour intensive business.

Care Agencies are big business, often foreign owned. If, with the level of support they seem to provide to their employees, they cannot make a profit charging a client £19, yet only paying the carer £4.30 (or what ever the minimum wage is) for 30 minutes, there is something very, very wrong.

 

[Ihavenojob]

Some pubs are having to shut again due to spikes in CV, whose fault is that, the government's, or pub owners for not following guidelines ?