H&S courses??

[Brigadier]

WRT asbestos courses,

yes, I agree, it may seem / be too late, if you have been drilling into it for 30 yrs. But the current thinking is.........if you don't breathe that last bit, it may be that last bit that had your number. Not absolute, but when it is your life, a last chance worth taking.
Plus, take into account the target audience. I have trained many a group of trades over the years - some, you may have written off (breathed it in for 40 yrs types). But there are often the 16-18yr old newbies in there as well - so the oldies may be screwed because of what they were exposed to from 16 yrs old, but I can do something to stop that happening to those newbies. Which has to be worthwhile, doesn't it?

WRT the Fire Service having their own rules and regs, they (and the other emergency services, and ships etc too) have their own rules for asbestos. In short, they are excused the rigour when carrying out their role (which may involve life and death), that other jockeys aren't. Similarly, they may be excused some duties under other regs, too.

 

[gregers]

you aint doing my course are you?

think it could be very intresting learning 1st hand about asbestos rather then hearing 3rd hand or being fed bullc.rap,forearmed is forewarned etc.
plus when in doubt YOU DONT DRILL IT DO YER.
weve had various surveys done over the years and stickers put up everywhere but we still have found it.

 

[LastMagicBean]

Who's that aimed at????

 

[LastMagicBean]

WRT asbestos courses,

yes, I agree, it may seem / be too late, if you have been drilling into it for 30 yrs. But the current thinking is.........if you don't breathe that last bit, it may be that last bit that had your number. Not absolute, but when it is your life, a last chance worth taking.
Plus, take into account the target audience. I have trained many a group of trades over the years - some, you may have written off (breathed it in for 40 yrs types). But there are often the 16-18yr old newbies in there as well - so the oldies may be screwed because of what they were exposed to from 16 yrs old, but I can do something to stop that happening to those newbies. Which has to be worthwhile, doesn't it?

Excellent post.

But asbestos is hidden.
It could, and has, been used for all sorts of reasons in decades past.

Why are you just starting to save lives now.?? And how.???

 

[LastMagicBean]

I'm confused who's talking to who now.

(no-one to me obviously)

 

[drgaz]

I used to blow brake drums out with compressed air in the 70s it filled the workshop with brake dust I was 16 just left school. thats me dead then. My dad was an electrican not long passed away age 75 Mesothelioma, Asbestosis due to working in boiler houses where they use to mix pots of the stuff to lag pipes.

Do I have any say in whether I should go on H&S course's or should I keep me gob shut and just go?

 

[LastMagicBean]

Do I have any say in whether I should go on H&S course's or should I keep me gob shut and just go?

Just go.
Nice jolly out. Interesting courses are the asbestos ones.

They won't save your life, but you can have a damn good beer afterwards.

 

[gregers]

Who's that aimed at????

soz m8,that was meant for brigadier,i got the impression from his post he is a instructor,as he had very good knowledge of asbestos.

 

[LastMagicBean]

Who's that aimed at????

soz m8,that was meant for brigadier,i got the impression from his post he is a instructor,as he had very good knowledge of asbestos.

I think he is. But all I was saying was ... with all the good will in the world you STILL can't stop people drilling into hidden asbestos, stickers or not mate.

That's all I was saying.
Interesting course for info, but ultimately pointless.

Just my opinion gregers.

 

[Brigadier]

I train rarely nowadays, but am still employed in the game. Today (and tomorrow ), I have the great pleasure of pointing out to assy strippers just how their concept of "a proper job", and mine, differ.

Unless you venture out of Sussex, Gregers, I am unlikely to cross your path - although I very occasionally train nowadays, I tend to be a bit more north than that!

And LMB, you are right in much of what you say. You can't stop anyone drilling into it, short of not letting them on site in the first place. I have seen photos where people have drilled holes adjacent to and even through asbestos warning stickers - boy how they must have laughed
WRT how long I / we have been telling people about how they really ought to not be drilling or smoshing it, it is as long as I have been in the game - getting on for twenty years. But the sad fact is, asbestos mainly kills the working classes (although that is now skewing a bit more towards white collar, with teachers for example becoming a increasing group of mortality statistics).
We have known that asbestos kills for nearly 2 millennia, and there are papers over one hundred years old in the UK, that cited asbestos as the cause of ill health and death, before terms like "asbestosis" and "mesothelioma" were even invented. But it was killing the working man. I have heard the phrase "If asbestos was used in judges' wigs, it would have been banned years ago.", many times.
Even "champions of the common man" were at the trough

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GppZltZd6xs[/youtube]

 

[Brigadier]

I don't believe the course (or any knowledge, for that matter) is ultimately pointless. Eventually, although too late for many, things will change, IF enough people change it.

The current system of regulation should work. But you are right, it doesn't. Why? Because people are involved, and they mess it up. Say you are the headteacher of a school. You are ultimately responsible, but you have only had 3 hrs training (and what is worse, you are unaware that that is not sufficient - you need to know what you are doing). You have a myriad other responsibilities. You don't have enough money to patch up the leaking roof, let alone devote to managing your H & S.
Your site manager has had no asbestos training, or can't be told, because "he was cutting it up in the 60's."
And to top it off, the official line from the HSE is everything is rosy, because to admit it isn't would incur the wrath of the Treasury, as there is no will to provide the money to fix it.

Do the course, and breathe as little dust as you can. Especially if you KNOW it isn't sawdust, brick dust, plaster dust. Your best defence isn't a sticker, a course, or some who is cleverer than you telling you that you can carry on. It is your eyes, your brain, and your hands. Because in the end, when you make that puff of dust, it is going into your lungs, and onto your clothes. Not the site manager's.

 

[LastMagicBean]

And LMB, you are right in much of what you say. You can't stop anyone drilling into it, short of not letting them on site in the first place. I have seen photos where people have drilled holes adjacent to and even through asbestos warning stickers - boy how they must have laughed
WRT how long I / we have been telling people about how they really ought to not be drilling or smoshing it, it is as long as I have been in the game - getting on for twenty years. But the sad fact is, asbestos mainly kills the working classes (although that is now skewing a bit more towards white collar, with teachers for example becoming a increasing group of mortality statistics).
We have known that asbestos kills for nearly 2 millennia, and there are papers over one hundred years old in the UK, that cited asbestos as the cause of ill health and death, before terms like "asbestosis" and "mesothelioma" were even invented. But it was killing the working man. I have heard the phrase "If asbestos was used in judges' wigs, it would have been banned years ago.", many times.
Even "champions of the common man" were at the trough

Your post, with respect, is too long for me to cut to pieces.

You're not a crusader for the common man. You're a robber of private and governmental institutions and workplaces glued to new HS laws.
I bet you're paid a fortune. (fair play to you)

I could be paid fortunes to deliver the ins and outs of asbestos to lemon heads. Why not.


I've been on the course, It's great for info, but explain to me how you are going to save the lives of 16 year olds drilling. Save lives??? where???

That's all ....just that.

 

[LastMagicBean]

Double sorry.

 

[LastMagicBean]

Stop bringing up stickers.

F*ck the stickers.

 

[Brigadier]

Wrong lmb - I have kids, a conscience, and I've talked people out of wasting money far more than spending it. I am not loaded, by any means.
It all depends on your viewpoint - if your roof is falling in and you have it replaced for 20k, you could say you've spent 20k on a new roof. Or you could say some rob-dog fleeced you.
You are right about h & s people though - so scared of prosecution, all sense (if they had it in the first place) has gone. I have seen this very week a former employee's risk assessment for making hot drinks in our office, ffs!