Customer wants engineered oak laid. Was going to use Kahrs, but am curious as to the new Parador woodloc/click system for solid oak, apparently this is a first, seems its the best of both worlds i.e. can be floated and clicked together and is solid wood. The underside of the floor has been grooved to relieve/reduce movement. Anyone of you flooring people had any experience with this?? Are Parador a reputable company, its European oak. A bit more expensive than Engineered but could be an option.
Hardwood flooring query
- Thread starter dav
- Start date
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Click-systems on solid don't add anything extra than money - that's my personal opinion.
Jumping on the band-wagon.
Main question is: where does your client want the floor installed? If in an area where there is more moist or the chance of rapid temperature changed - or if there's UFH involved - it's better to abide by your clients wishes and stick with quality engineered flooring (without a click-system!)
Jumping on the band-wagon.
Main question is: where does your client want the floor installed? If in an area where there is more moist or the chance of rapid temperature changed - or if there's UFH involved - it's better to abide by your clients wishes and stick with quality engineered flooring (without a click-system!)
Many Thanks WYL no its a living room and hallway. Environment is stable, no underfloor heating etc..
The only reason I was to use woodloc/click would be due to customers wishes and their budget - its a largish area and I would charge more if laying tongue and groove. I have laid Kahrs many times and have never had a problem with it. Just had never come across this product before and had me wondering. Also have no experience with Parador apparently a top German company and quality looks excellent.
The only reason I was to use woodloc/click would be due to customers wishes and their budget - its a largish area and I would charge more if laying tongue and groove. I have laid Kahrs many times and have never had a problem with it. Just had never come across this product before and had me wondering. Also have no experience with Parador apparently a top German company and quality looks excellent.
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parador are good company that produces good quality floors the only thing wrong with it is the price it is a very expensive product I also have been on the parador training corse and in my opinion there are allot better solid out there at half the price the locking system is good but what is wrong with the original and in my opinion still the best system for solid t & g if the customer has said they want engineered i would go with it as not to get any come backs with the job
Many Thanks - yes in this case I'll go with the customer. Just interested in the experts views on the product. WYL Flooring is not my main area - 2nd fix carpenter. I don't normally float solid T&G although I know that this is becoming more and more common.
grun-dorf have been making this locking solid for over a year! It is very very good and by far better than gluing tongue and groove. ( I still think fully bond or nail is one of the best but that is personal. ) You must fit the lock solid onto elastilon underlay tho. The biggest problem in the trade is that people find a product they like and stick with it without trying other methods/systems out. ( which you cant blame them ) I am lucky in the fact that i get to see many failed installs and methods. ( but i also have to then Pratt around finding out why! ) I must say that this so called lock system looks the best over moister change and is the least likely to get a complaint on. If a floor does fail tho it is 99% of the time down to install error! But with the strange weather we are having at the moment, we may need to start writing new install instructions 
you can get some quality engineered planks on the market.
i have seen an 8mm oak veneer on a marine ply 12mm.
this was a quality engineered but when down the one strip finish was as good as any solid.
i always say - your heart will buy solid wood - your head will but engineered.
i have seen an 8mm oak veneer on a marine ply 12mm.
this was a quality engineered but when down the one strip finish was as good as any solid.
i always say - your heart will buy solid wood - your head will but engineered.
What would you say were the main problems with floating a hardwood floor?
Largely due to poor fitting and places like floors2go/ B&Q who sell you a roll of underlay and a tapping block kit.
Even when fitted well, they sound hollow and bounce when walked on. info in fitting instructions is watered down but just enough to cover the supplier when the average DIYer cocks it up, especially from the chinese market.
Even on this post, the question is about quality flooring. no one has asked what sub-floor the new floor is being installed on.
It's only my opinion and like matty says, we all have prefernces but you can solid fix in most situations and this is the est method in my book.
There is a need for engineered flooring where there might be moisture/heat issues such as conservatories..
Even when fitted well, they sound hollow and bounce when walked on. info in fitting instructions is watered down but just enough to cover the supplier when the average DIYer cocks it up, especially from the chinese market.
Even on this post, the question is about quality flooring. no one has asked what sub-floor the new floor is being installed on.
It's only my opinion and like matty says, we all have prefernces but you can solid fix in most situations and this is the est method in my book.
There is a need for engineered flooring where there might be moisture/heat issues such as conservatories..
I've fitted my own solid oak floor, and just done my brother's by this method (floating). I've always wondered if it is the right thing to do. Both of these were done on concrete floors with a foil/foam insulator underneath.
They both creak a little bit, no major issues with big gaps or anything. They both sound a little hollow though.
I'm in the process of buying a new house and I'm going to be fitting a oak floor again. I'm just wondering what I need to do to get a 100% sold, creak-free install. It will have a concrete floor.
I could either:
1. Glue it down to the concrete floor.
2. Get that Elastilon stuff
3. Use battens and secret nail
4. Install ply sub floor and secret nail.
5. Just float it again.
Everyone seems to have a different opinion.
Wood is a product of nature, it "works" constantly to adjust itself to the house climate, no matter which method is used for installation.
Have you ever noticed that when you walk into a room first thing in the morning the floor makes a noise? Specially in winter when the heating has been turned lower over night and the house is now just getting a bit warmer.
If a floor creaks or bounces constantly it is mostly down to a not level underfloor. If you don't want to install your floor floating to prevent bouncing - if that's your line of thought - and decided to fully bond it you cannot expect the adhesive to work as a leveler/filler on an uneven concrete floor. That just does not work, you'll end up with echo and hollow sounds.
So, make sure your underfloor is as level as possible first.
And yes, there are different opinions on different installation methods. Where we all agree on is: no matter which method you opt for, as long as it is done correctly - correct preparations, correct products, etc - you can't go wrong.
And with some floors or products (for instance: many short lengths and narrow boards) your installation method options are restricted.
Have you ever noticed that when you walk into a room first thing in the morning the floor makes a noise? Specially in winter when the heating has been turned lower over night and the house is now just getting a bit warmer.
If a floor creaks or bounces constantly it is mostly down to a not level underfloor. If you don't want to install your floor floating to prevent bouncing - if that's your line of thought - and decided to fully bond it you cannot expect the adhesive to work as a leveler/filler on an uneven concrete floor. That just does not work, you'll end up with echo and hollow sounds.
So, make sure your underfloor is as level as possible first.
And yes, there are different opinions on different installation methods. Where we all agree on is: no matter which method you opt for, as long as it is done correctly - correct preparations, correct products, etc - you can't go wrong.
And with some floors or products (for instance: many short lengths and narrow boards) your installation method options are restricted.
Floating is probably more common now than solid fixing, because it's cheap and the diy market wants it.
A well solid fixed floor should last a lifetime, can't see this being the case for a floating floor, the adhesive will give way with all the movement before too long..
The easy thing about floating is you don't need to check for damp/moisure, just use a DPM underlay and your done. And a downside to solid fixing to ply, is you need 22mm (min) wbp ply, so theres a cost.
Batten is cheaper and quicker but you still have that hollow sound, the good point is, it's still solid fixed and that hollow sound for some reason, sounds better than any floating floor. The sound in most cases doesn't bother people but a few of my coustomers insist on solid fixing as they've heard the boxy sound of their friends floors.
You can use any of the methods you mentioned but somewhere in the midlle, cost wise, with a good sound and moisture proetection would be to glue down.
You would need a DPM www.f-ball.co.uk F76 and maybe a screed if your concrete isn't level enough. A new DPM and screed works out at £10 per/m2 approx as opposed to £5 for floating underlay.
A well solid fixed floor should last a lifetime, can't see this being the case for a floating floor, the adhesive will give way with all the movement before too long..
The easy thing about floating is you don't need to check for damp/moisure, just use a DPM underlay and your done. And a downside to solid fixing to ply, is you need 22mm (min) wbp ply, so theres a cost.
Batten is cheaper and quicker but you still have that hollow sound, the good point is, it's still solid fixed and that hollow sound for some reason, sounds better than any floating floor. The sound in most cases doesn't bother people but a few of my coustomers insist on solid fixing as they've heard the boxy sound of their friends floors.
You can use any of the methods you mentioned but somewhere in the midlle, cost wise, with a good sound and moisture proetection would be to glue down.
You would need a DPM www.f-ball.co.uk F76 and maybe a screed if your concrete isn't level enough. A new DPM and screed works out at £10 per/m2 approx as opposed to £5 for floating underlay.
And whatever gave you this ridiculous idea ????????
When there is a concrete floor involved on the ground floor, always check for moisture whatever method of installation you plan to use.
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