I did get asked in a wholesalers last week if I was a member of a competant persons scheme, but it was more idle chit chat than anything. My ELECSA coat was a bit of a giveaway too, to be fair.
Has Part P gone too far?
- Thread starter DWLondon
- Start date
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I learnt many things about cost-benefit analysis in several areas of business and activity.
Cost-benefit can be based oncosts that are not financial and in some cases not even material and on benefits with no intrinsic or financial value.
I think you will find ARGOS will send the address to the TV Licence Office to add to the list of addresses the TVLO need to check for a licence.
Unless Big Brother has now opened up TVLO records to the retail industry.
nothing has changed the retailer has informed them for the last 20 years at least
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Restricting the sale of anything won't stop people buying it. It will just create a whole new mess of enforcement (or lack of).
If some outlets choose not to sell items to the general public - so what? They will just go to B&Q or some other outlet instead.
Even if the sale of electrical items was successfully restricted to registered electricians, people would then be unable to purchase items for simple repairs. They should call an electrician to repair it - but plenty of people won't do this, so damaged and dangerous items would not be fixed, or they would be bodged up using whatever materials were available.
Test/inspection on a typical house can easily be done in one day or less. What takes the extra time is repairing/replacing circuits where faults are found. To compare with gas - testing a gas pipe for leaks doesn't take that long. Locating and repairing 3 leaks in that pipe and removing the piece of garden hosepipe in the middle will take longer and therefore cost extra.
Changing a CU does require that the circuits connected to it are also tested and repaired where required.
RCDs are for additional protection - not as magic fixes for dangerous and shoddy work. Just replacing rewireable fuses with MCBs won't provide any safety improvements. They may well be more convenient to reset, but if fuses are having to be replaced often, there is something wrong with the installation.
People are far more aware of Corgi regarding gas installations, as that has been around a lot longer and crucially, there is only ONE gas scheme and all gas installers have to belong to it. No Corgi - no work. (although of course, there are still unregistered gas installers)
For the general public, having multiple schemes for electrical work is confusing enough - and then made much worse as only SOME types of work need to be notified, and membership of ANY scheme is completely optional.
As for the TV licence - so what if retailers ask for your address. Nothing to stop people giving an alternative address - who in the shop is going to know or even care?
TV licensing already know where to look - they have a list of all properties with a licence, so they just target those properties without one. TV detector vans or whatever they have now are not used to 'detect' illegal uses of televisions. To check if someone is using a TV, just look through the front window!
If some outlets choose not to sell items to the general public - so what? They will just go to B&Q or some other outlet instead.
Even if the sale of electrical items was successfully restricted to registered electricians, people would then be unable to purchase items for simple repairs. They should call an electrician to repair it - but plenty of people won't do this, so damaged and dangerous items would not be fixed, or they would be bodged up using whatever materials were available.
Test/inspection on a typical house can easily be done in one day or less. What takes the extra time is repairing/replacing circuits where faults are found. To compare with gas - testing a gas pipe for leaks doesn't take that long. Locating and repairing 3 leaks in that pipe and removing the piece of garden hosepipe in the middle will take longer and therefore cost extra.
Changing a CU does require that the circuits connected to it are also tested and repaired where required.
RCDs are for additional protection - not as magic fixes for dangerous and shoddy work. Just replacing rewireable fuses with MCBs won't provide any safety improvements. They may well be more convenient to reset, but if fuses are having to be replaced often, there is something wrong with the installation.
People are far more aware of Corgi regarding gas installations, as that has been around a lot longer and crucially, there is only ONE gas scheme and all gas installers have to belong to it. No Corgi - no work. (although of course, there are still unregistered gas installers)
For the general public, having multiple schemes for electrical work is confusing enough - and then made much worse as only SOME types of work need to be notified, and membership of ANY scheme is completely optional.
As for the TV licence - so what if retailers ask for your address. Nothing to stop people giving an alternative address - who in the shop is going to know or even care?
TV licensing already know where to look - they have a list of all properties with a licence, so they just target those properties without one. TV detector vans or whatever they have now are not used to 'detect' illegal uses of televisions. To check if someone is using a TV, just look through the front window!
I've been asked to do an install cert, told them that the only thing I could do was a PIR as I hadn't done the installation, brand new CU, (DZ or something like that, only ever seen them on e-bay)
customer says "everything should be ok it's all been recently done!", so why the PIR I ask, the bloke who did it can't do certificates, so I ask to see his test results, they've not appeared, done the PIR, no ring continuity, some lights not working at all, no main bonding, split load board, 1 RCD, no RCBOs
shower switch wired incorrectly (neon permanently on), commented to the customer that if basic stuff like that is wrong, what is the hope of anything else being right, cowboys are still out there, this one is in for a bit of a nasty suprise, done the PIR, customer has a copy, so does building control, I switched off the main isolator and put a wire seal on it with a warning notice.
Part P is helping but it's not working fully, we're not out to rip folks off, just make a living by doing a proper SAFE and accountable job.
Just think, if you wouldn't let a none Corgi registered plumber work on your gas, why would you let a semi skilled person work on your wiring? you can smell gas and it doesn't kill on impact, with electricity you don't get any warning, don't mess with it unless you are 100% certain of what you are doing
customer says "everything should be ok it's all been recently done!", so why the PIR I ask, the bloke who did it can't do certificates, so I ask to see his test results, they've not appeared, done the PIR, no ring continuity, some lights not working at all, no main bonding, split load board, 1 RCD, no RCBOs
shower switch wired incorrectly (neon permanently on), commented to the customer that if basic stuff like that is wrong, what is the hope of anything else being right, cowboys are still out there, this one is in for a bit of a nasty suprise, done the PIR, customer has a copy, so does building control, I switched off the main isolator and put a wire seal on it with a warning notice.
Part P is helping but it's not working fully, we're not out to rip folks off, just make a living by doing a proper SAFE and accountable job.
Just think, if you wouldn't let a none Corgi registered plumber work on your gas, why would you let a semi skilled person work on your wiring? you can smell gas and it doesn't kill on impact, with electricity you don't get any warning, don't mess with it unless you are 100% certain of what you are doing
H
harrisonline
I think the problem with part-P is that if you stopped and asked someone in the street they probably have never heard of it.
If just say Beatrice wanted some sockets moved in her kitchen. She would ask her family and friends for to recommend some electricians.
They may recomend Dave who has been doing electrics for years. Dave does the electrics and does a good job,
Beatrice is happy. Dave gets paid. Dave is not part-p registered but that doesn't bother Beaty because she knows not what it is?
Throw in a part- p electrician into the mix. He gives a quote. Its £80 more than Dave's. He doesn't get the job!
I know a very good electrician who has stopped doing domestic installations for this very reason. He cannot compete with non part-p electricians prices. He now concentrates on factories and businesses ect...
If just say Beatrice wanted some sockets moved in her kitchen. She would ask her family and friends for to recommend some electricians.
They may recomend Dave who has been doing electrics for years. Dave does the electrics and does a good job,
Beatrice is happy. Dave gets paid. Dave is not part-p registered but that doesn't bother Beaty because she knows not what it is?
Throw in a part- p electrician into the mix. He gives a quote. Its £80 more than Dave's. He doesn't get the job!
I know a very good electrician who has stopped doing domestic installations for this very reason. He cannot compete with non part-p electricians prices. He now concentrates on factories and businesses ect...
I found a couple of years ago that most of the householders I met made mention of part P, nowadays people have the attitude of 'it my house, I'll do what I want in it'.
A lot just seem to think that electrical work has to be done by someone calling themselves an electrican, as opposed to them doing it themselves.
Many are quite glad of all thins, because it stops their partner telling them to do it themselves to save money when they're not actually at all happy doing it themselves.
If scheme membership was cheaper (annual inspections, whats that all about!) then I'd be a lot happier with part P.
A lot just seem to think that electrical work has to be done by someone calling themselves an electrican, as opposed to them doing it themselves.
Many are quite glad of all thins, because it stops their partner telling them to do it themselves to save money when they're not actually at all happy doing it themselves.
If scheme membership was cheaper (annual inspections, whats that all about!) then I'd be a lot happier with part P.
And that, as always, is completely bogus bullshit - the extra costs of registering with a competent person scheme are not £80 per job, nor anywhere near that - never were, never could be, never will be.
He may well find it hard to compete with cowboys who don't have insurance and don't do testing etc, but 'twas ever thus, and anybody who blames such a plight on Part P is either hard-of-thinking or is suffering from wounded pride and telling porkies because of it.
the main problem with part p is the eal domestic installer
qualification any its a micky mouse course a child could
pass
i went to a job 2 weeks ago i could not believe how bad it
was when i took the customer round and showed him
cables running UNDER the joists and trapped with the plasterboard . a mass of connector blocks under the floor
above the cu branching off to each room
his answer was but he showed me his part p
certificate thats the highest one an electrician can get.
the public need to be better informed
qualification any its a micky mouse course a child could
pass
i went to a job 2 weeks ago i could not believe how bad it
was when i took the customer round and showed him
cables running UNDER the joists and trapped with the plasterboard . a mass of connector blocks under the floor
above the cu branching off to each room
his answer was but he showed me his part p
certificate thats the highest one an electrician can get.
the public need to be better informed
To be fair Jock, I have seen jobs just as bad done by full scope installers.
In the case you saw, I presume the rectification work would be covered by the IBW and hence fall back on the original installer.
In the case you saw, I presume the rectification work would be covered by the IBW and hence fall back on the original installer.
yes that was not my point the customer seen this eal
laminated cert and thinks oh thats this new part p
this guy must be good my point the government
and the schems need to keep the public more informed
you go to a small job and say oh i have just got to check the main earthing arrangements they think you are a conman a brief tv ad would do the trick
Some builders seem to be able to have anything "certified".
For one customer of mine, they extended a pool house, changed the CU and removed the RCD protection on the lights around the pool. client had no EIC but did have an nic eic building notification cert.
Another job I rewired a house for a developer. Not to include kitchen/attic as he had "good inclusive prices" for these. I told him this was a bad idea, he'd be better off with one guy responsible for any electrical issues, but he was determined, and I said "fine, let me cert my wiring before they connect anything". I connected the ground & 1st floors, everything neatly labelled, left 2x 6, 1x 40 and 2x 32 on RCD (16th ed) ready for the builders.
When I returned as the builder inevitably blamed me for their f@@@ups, the CU was a mess of pencil, biro and scribbles. mcbs had all been moved around... WHY??? Opened it up to find he cut his cable too short so had moved mcbs across so he could just stretch the cable in... Really messy, amateurish work. And an niceic approved contractor sticker.
Asked me to change the failed dimmer in the kitchen... no de-rating for halogen lamps... and no earth continuity either. Threw it back at him.
getting back to the point==this guy is a complete muppet, electricians holding people to ransom, is he serious , if he knew what we have to put up whith dealing with customers like him, (putting on a fake smile while thinking "please lick these incoming tails whilst i disconnect main earth" )
, if you want monkeys mate then by all means pay peanuts. you are the main reason part p exists,Its there so you cant call your mate the handyman who's sole catchphrase is "YEEEEHAAAAW" and ask him to throw you a new cu in ."GRRRRR"
All of the following meet your criteria.
- Current 60/70mph speed limit reduced to 20mph, current 40/50 to 10mph, current 30 and below to 5mph.
- Driving forbidden during conditions of fog, ice, snow.
- Complete ban on the possession and use of motorcycles.
- Raising minimum age for driving to 30.
- Banning the sale, possession and use of ladders and steps.
- Banning garden ponds.
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