Have I the right?

[conny]

Went to have a look at a friends partly built conservatory tonight and found something I didn't like.
Its a full length glass style with just the house outer wall being brick. The company doing it have agreed to install 2 double sockets on this wall for her.
The 2 galvanised back boxes are in place about 9" off the floor level, too low as I believe they should be 450mm, (15"), a 2.5mm T&E cable has been brought through the wall from the kitchen about 5' high and run down to the right hand box at an angle of about 60 degrees, (outside safe zone), then another length of 2.5mm run horizontally across to the left hand box. There is no FCU installed, (2 doubles as a spur, not allowed?). She has been told when the plasterer comes on Friday he will 'Dot & Dab' plasterboard over the cables to "hide them".
I have explained how they should be run vertically in the safe zones and they should also be in steel conduit as they will not be chased in to 50mm.
Should the ring main they come off also be RCD protected? It is from the kitchen socket which is not a dedicated ring but in with the lower ring main.
She is going to mention this to the contractor tomorrow, (Thursday), but if he says it is alright and I am just being 'fussy' do I have the right to insist he does it correctly on her behalf or will she have to stand up to him herself? She is a divorcee so doesn't have a man to back her up.
Any info would be gratefully received.

 

[ColJack]

450 only applies to total new builds or to total refurbs ( IE back to bare brick )
cables run at angles not allowed
only 1 double as a spur..
the steel conduit would allow the angled run ( but not best practice ), but is not a necessity just because the cablkes won't be 50mm from the surface, an RCD and safe zones will suffice..

sounds like a cowboy builder trying his hand at wiring..

ask him for his scheme details if he's claiming to be Part-P.. and stop him in his tracks if he's not....

 

[Spark123]

Firstly if the circuit which is going to supply the sockets is a ring then you are correct that you should not daisychain sockets.
Twin and earth should be installed within the correct zones and should be RCD protected unless the cable is protected against mechanical damage.
If the electrical work includes work within a kitchen then it will be notifiable under part p.
All normal domestic sockets should be RCD protected to the 17th edn.
The builders probably don't care one iota about electrical safety and working to the relevent electrical regs, the inspection, testing and certification will be non-existant. The test will be plug a lamp or a radio in once it is connected up.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Is there anything in the spec/contract about the electrics? Or generic BR compliance?

Sounds like there's a wonderful opportunity shaping up for her to refuse to pay the bill. "You want me to pay you for work which was illegal? I think not".

Conny - take photos.

 

[IJWS15]

Suggestion for them.

Run the cable vertically down from where it comes through the wall to the level of the sockets and fit a FCU there. Wire the two double sockets on the outlet side of the FCU and fit a 13a fuse. Creates a protected zone for the vertical run. I have 4 doubles plus lights and fan on a 2.5 T&E spur in our conservatory - all fed through a single 13A fuse.

Does not get around the certification issues

Waits for pros to shoot him down . . . .

 

[conny]

Thanks for the quick replies lads.
Won't be able to get pics today as pulled a double shift at work but I've told her that I will speak to builder on phone if she has trouble.

IJW, thats what I thought would be easiest solution as it is only 2 doubles, she is not having a light as she likes lamps.

BAS, contract says 'all work will comply with relevant building regulations in force at the time of build.'

Spark123 & Coljack, will edit your posts to just the relevant info and print off acopy for her. Will drop it in on my way to work shortly so she can show builder.

Thanks for the help lads, will let you know what happens.

 

[conny]

Hi lads, just to update you as promised.
Builder phoned me at work to ask who I was and where did I get my info from? Told him I was an electrical engineer, (true) and I had been round to see my friend when I noticed the wiring. Went on to tell him that if it wasn't corrected to comply with BS7671:2008 regulations BEFORE the plastering was done tomorrow I would be reporting him to LABC and his electrician to whatever trade association he belonged to or the LABC also.
He flusstered a bit and claimed the spark must have got his apprentice to do the work. After a heated discussion he agreed he would get the wiring installed correctly, I blagged him by saying I would be calling back round tonight or first thing tomorrow morning to make sure. Friend phoned later on tonight while I was still at work to tell me,
A/ Old wiring has been removed.
B/ Back boxes have been raised to 15" above floor level.
C/ 1 cable has been brought through vertically above each socket to be fed from 2 different sockets in the kitchen.
D/ Each cable is run inside silver metal pipes. (Sounds like Galvanised conduit but have told her to see if there are any offcuts lying around, she says she has a piece about 2" long to show me).
E/ Each socket is going to be intergrated RCD Twin Socket.
F/ He will issue her with a MWC to cover his work and the circuit he is using for the supply. (I have told her to make sure it specifies the lower ring main).
G/ She took his name and NAPIT number, which she phoned up to verify, and it checked out.

So, an excellent result all round I would say.
Friend says to send you a HUGE THANK YOU as she would have been non the wiser but now she will sleep easy knowing there are good people like you around.
So from me and her,

THANK YOU!

 

[conny]

Thank you.
For the benefit of others they were irrelevant to this topic.

 

[JACKC]

Conny,

I am a NAPIT member and what you have stopped needs reporting. It is sub standard and his next customer will not be fortunate enough to protected by you. Crap like this shouldn't be happening or be allowed to be swept under the carpet.

 

[40 watt spark]

Sounds like the builder (or his 'mate') probably did the origional work, got caught out and was forced to find a proper spark to come and do it properly before he landed himself in the brown smelly stuff.

Been down a similar route where the builders chippy mate 'does electrics' ..... he'd extended a ring final with some old red an black 1.5T&E, he'd used brown sleeving on the cpc's cos earths brown , and that was just the tip of the iceberg.......

My favorite thing this star had done was he'd left a reel of 1.5T&E hanging on a nail outside the front door while the porch was built ready for the porch light,however the exposed end of the T&E that sticks through the centre of the reel was LIVE he'd already terminated it to the hallway ceiling rose (guess Tesco carrier bags have magical insulating and IP properities we're not aware of)

It was only the owner started asking about a certificate for the work that made the builder realise he needed an electrician and not a chippy

makes you wonder how many other jobs his mate has done for him and no ones ever picked up on

 

[AndyPRK]

E/ Each socket is going to be intergrated RCD Twin Socket.


I guess that complies with the 16th ? edition to do with sockets that could be used to plug exterior appliances into ?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

D/ Each cable is run inside silver metal pipes. (Sounds like Galvanised conduit but have told her to see if there are any offcuts lying around, she says she has a piece about 2" long to show me).

It therefore complies with the 17th too....

 

[ColJack]

no, 17th as well.. 411.3.3, all socket outlets less than 20A that are for use by an ordinary person and are intended for general use need RCD protection..