Height Of Switches & Sockets

[Ocset]

Can someone advise me about the regs regarding the height of switches and sockets, which are given as 1200mm & 450mm respectively. If when I have my house rewired must the newly installed switches & sockets be positioned at these heights? If it helps with a reply there are currently no disabled people living at the house.

Tony

 

[dingbat]

It matters not whether or not people with restricted reach do/have/may live/lived/live in the property, the rules (from Part M of the Building Regulations) state that for new builds one way of complying with accessibility requirements is to position all switches and sockets above 450mm and below 1200mm.

There is no requirement to change heights for a rewire, provided that access is no worse than before.

However, I know of at least one building inspector who insists on the new heights for rewires (this may or may not be local policy) so if you are involving LABC you'd better check with them. If, on the other hand, you are employing a self-certifying electrician, just go with what suits you best.

 

[Ocset]

Thanks for the advice, for your info I will be employing the services of a self certifying electrician, therefore I will go with more suitable heights etc etc.

Thanks again.

 

[securespark]

However, I know of at least one building inspector who insists on the new heights for rewires

In which case, you could point him to the electrician's guide to the building regs, which clearly states that a rewire does not fall under these rules.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

However, I know of at least one building inspector who insists on the new heights for rewires.

Do you know if anybody has ever asked him for the legal justification for this?

 

[dingbat]

Hi Ban, yes I have indeed pointed him in the right direction.

He is the regular inspector for the area where I do a few rewires for a local builder. These are council-granted refurbs on private homes, following asbestos clearance. Most of them are back-to-back houses with CU and gas meter in cellar and the rest of the accommodation on three floors above ground. They are all cramped, with narrow doorways and steep, winding staircases. Most have several steep steps to the front door too. In other words, not ideal dwellings for people with rstricted movement.

Following a panicky call from the builder I armed myself with all the references and met the inspector on site. He grudgingly 'passed' the one he'd objected to, but insisted that all future ones comply with Part M. He couldn't care less that we certify and notify it ourselves. As far as he is concerned he is the inspector, his word is the law.

No skin off my nose, we just keep him happy. I wonder though, how the returning homeowners feel about coming home to find sockets halfway up their walls and switches at knee height!

(Oh yes, this same inspector queried the size of equipotential bonding to the gas service in one property. Even when I showed him the drum of ten-mill I'd just cut it off he insisted that it was only 6 sq mm... a size I never even carry!)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

As far as he is concerned he is the inspector, his word is the law.

A swift court case would be fun.

No skin off my nose, we just keep him happy. I wonder though, how the returning homeowners feel about coming home to find sockets halfway up their walls and switches at knee height!

Particularly accompanied by complaints from property owners,

(Oh yes, this same inspector queried the size of equipotential bonding to the gas service in one property. Even when I showed him the drum of ten-mill I'd just cut it off he insisted that it was only 6 sq mm... a size I never even carry!)

and evidence from yourself about his general level of incompetence.

 

[didthathurt]

This aspect of the regs does not apply to rewires but it does to complete refurbishments. If these jobs are council funded refurbs then part M may well apply. There does not appear to be any definition of what constitutes a refurb though - that does give the LABC scope for their own interpretation.

a court case would have to show that the decision was so unreasonable as to be ultra vires, ie beyond the legal scope of their decision making power, to overturn it. So the Inspector's view will, generally, prevail.

 

[ebee]

If it`s a council grant then it might be subject to contract law.

Personally I think the "new" heights are a good idea although below 1200mm for a plateswitch perhaps a tadd too low for most folk.
I`ve been fixing sockets on many rewires at 450mm and higher for years and the users have found them easier to use.
Of course I always go thru the pros and cons of it before getting their final decision about heights and positions

 

[securespark]

He grudgingly 'passed' the one he'd objected to, but insisted that all future ones comply with Part M.

He can't pass one, then insist all the other "comply" with Part M.

Tell him you'll see him in court, then watch the expression on his face carefully.

His competence at judging cable sizes gives you great confidence....NOT!

Did

Take your point about referbs. HOWEVER, did the inspector make this point when insisting on compliance with Part M? If he did not, he doesn't have any legs to stand on...and would look very weak relying on it in any future argument.

 

[dingbat]

It really isn't worth arguing over.

I may be self-certifying. I may know a lot more about electrical installations than the building inspector. But I am certainly not going to upset the man, who will in turn make the builder's life difficult, who will then find it impossible to give me these very nice little jobs.

And, besides, I may well encounter the same fella on other jobs. Why make my life difficult?

 

[ebee]

That`s realistic.
You might win the battle but lose the war was a comment I got (from a collegue) when scoring a point with a grants officer from the council.
Years down the line they usually listen to sensible reasoning and come round pretty much to our way of thinking but it has taken a long slogg to build up this relationship.
Human nature innit?
This inspector might end up providing you with a lot of "bread and butter" over the years.
Make suggestions, reasoning then bow to His final say with due respect but whilst not kow towing and nuture Him and allow Him to come round to His (Your) way of thinking.
It differs with them all but you`ll probably acheive about 90% of your own way but from their perspective it`s 99% them and that 1% consideration for your views that they believe they`re allowing you is just because the are so reasonable

 

[securespark]

I've been in very similar situations. I take your point about wanting to keep the guy sweet, but from my POV, I would want to let him know I knew what I was talking about, and he couldn't just walk all over me.

He's a shyster: if he had made it plain from day one that he viewed your work as refurbishment, not rewiring, fair enough. But I assume has has not done this, and can't very well back track now.

Anyway, enough of my rambling. Good luck with the rest of the contract!