Help Needed - 'Live' walls

[mminlondon]

I've just had underfloor electric heating installed in my ground floor flat.

Whenever the underfloor heating is turned on, electric current can be felt in any metal objects in contact with the walls including the corner beads, wall sockets, even a frying pan placed on the hob.

This is not a shock or a discharge. It feels like a constant electrical current, mildly uncomfortable, but its definitely there, and goes away the moment the underfloor heating is turned off.

The electrician confirmed there's voltage present with a meter reading of some sort. They've since pulled up the electric floor and reinstalled it, double-checking everything. The problem persists.

The manufacturer suggests its a mains bonding issue (?). The electrician says everything is right with the bonding and is washing his hands of this.

Who do I need to take responsibility for sorting this out? Does anyone have experience with this phenomenon?

Thank you!

 

[jockspark]

did the electrician replace the underfloor heating?
did he check the thermostat probe and wiring
did he check the earth bonding
the problem may not have been caused by the work he done
but just to walk away i am sure you will recommend him to all your friends

 

[JohnD]

You need a good electrician.

It sounds like you didn't have one.

What qualifications did the installer have, and what documents did he give you when the installations was "completed"?

How did you pay?

How old is the building?

Can you post some pics of the meter, the incoming supply and main fuse, your consumer unit (fusebox) and the cables around them all (especially the green-and-yellow ones)?
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=129539

 

[oharaf]

This is not good. The installers have checked everything and an electrician has checked everthing and both parties are effectively washing their hands of it.

IMO the responsibility lies with the installers. The heating system should be 'fit for purpose' and clearly it is not.

I would have them out again and again until they resolve this issue.

In the mean time I would be on to Trading Standards, reporting both the installers and the sparks.

This is an absolute bloody disgrace. Clearly their is a safety issue here, you say the 'live' sensation is unpleasant, any sensation would have my alarm bells ringing if I was that sprky and I would be doing the utmost to resolve it, including talking to the installers.

Somewhere there is a short causing the surfaces to become 'live', the corner beading being a classic part to become live.

Really put pressure on these people and involve as many of the authorities as you can. Was your sparky registered to a competent person scheme such as NICEIC or ECA, if so inform them. Did he leave you any paper work?

I know it sounds bitchy but WATCHDOG would love to hear from you.


Best of luck, keep us informed

 

[RF Lighting]

OP, I don't know how technically minded you are, but do you know if the supply for your under floor heating is protected by an RCD?

 

[mminlondon]

Thank you for the replies. This has me worried as there is a new wood floor laid over the electric floor heating, which has to come up every time these guys look at this. And next week a new kitchen is going down over the bamboo in one part at least...so really no way to take up the floor after that. The probe is not near the kitchen though.

What docs should the electrician be giving me? I understand from the main contractor that the spark is certified but I haven't seen any paperwork.

I don't know what an RCD is, but I'll look into this.

I'll post some pics of the installation too if that helps, though walls are all closed up now. Thanks again for the help!

 

[mminlondon]

Just did get through to the contractor. He's told me he'll get a second opinion in, and also communicate with the manufacturer.
His boys installed the underfloor heating system. They'd never seen one before but there were easy to read instructions to follow. I'm not sure what the installers could have gotten wrong really. The spark who hooked it all up works for this contractor. He seemed to want to fix the problem but just didn't see anything wrong with the set up. Anyway, it's now out of this sparks hands and we'll get the second opinion.

I'm holding 25% of the contractor's money so I'm not too worried about them not being responsive.

This is a ground floor flat, and there does exist some damp in the walls, so maybe that's a contributing factor.

Will keep you posted...

 

[mminlondon]

OP, I don't know how technically minded you are, but do you know if the supply for your under floor heating is protected by an RCD?

RF - it's not protected by an RCD. The electrician didn't install one and the flat doesn't have one yet.

The thermostat is protected by a fused spur only.

The flat is in a 50 year old building. The flat was fit out in the 80's, was previously storage at ground floor.

The contractor has told me that they 'don't give NICEIC or ECA paperwork' for a job of this scale. Are there certificates that I should be getting from these guys?


Thanks again for the advice.

 

[RF Lighting]

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you really need to get another electrician.

First of all, it is an electrical reg that ALL electric underfloor heating systems are RCD protected. I think you have found out why.

You electrician should have issued you with either a Minor Electrical Works certificate (MEW) or an Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) depending on how much work he did.


Also, as you live in England, this work is governed by part P of the building regs, and it is a legal requirement for your electrician to inform your local authority building control (LABC) he has carried out the works. He must also supply them with a copy of the certificate which he should have issed to you.

Then your LABC would send you a certificate of compliance to prove the work is all legal and (hopefully) safe.

If your electrician really is a member of the NICEIC and the ECA, they both have very good greivance procedures in place, which I would advise you may want to persue.

The NICEIC IIRC will ensure the work is put right at the contractors expense.

 

[mminlondon]

Thanks for the heads up.

I'll confirm whether he's a part of any competent persons scheme. I did have a BCO in on this job, but I haven't seen the certificate of completion yet. The BCO may have only looked at another aspect of the job, a structural opening in the wall. Perhaps the builder didn't alert him to the floor or the wiring, otherwise I suppose the BCO would have caught on to the lack of RCB at least.

I'll start chasing this.

 

[Wattsuptom]

Did you ever get to the bottom of this?

 

[Adam_151]

Did you ever get to the bottom of this?

I should imagine that your chances of a reply from the OP are slim as he has not been active on the forum for nearly 15 and a half years!

 

[ericmark]

Did you ever get to the bottom of this?

You need to start a new thread, regulations have changed in that 15 years, my thoughts are likely lack of bonding somewhere, but may not be the heating mats, but we will never know now, so start a thread with your problem.