HELP!!! Paint has pealed off celling very easy

[chrisb1357]

Hi all,

I was stripping some of our walls in our bedroom and noticed the paint on the celling started to form large bubbles so I thought this was not right and started to pull it away.

The whole lot pulled of the celling with no force at all. I think the other person that had the place before us had not prep the surface before hand or PVA before painting which I know it s a big NO NO.

So what do I do now before I re paint it in a few weeks. Do I use my sanding pole and sanding head and go over the whole celling with something like 120 grit as I don't know if it has PVA on or not and then do a miss coat before first coat

Untitled

• chrisb1357
• 13 Oct 2013
• 1

 

[footprints]

Wow that's impressive! If it is PVA as you say that's bad news.

You can try sanding and painting with something like Zinsser Bullseye 123 but I would simply line the ceiling with paper and paint that, as wallpaper paste should take ok on the PVA. As always try a little patch first (you can strip it off before doing the lot) but it should be alright.

 

[chrisb1357]

Yep I could to beleave how easy it was to come off

Chris

 

[dcdec]

Zinsser gardz

 

[chrisb1357]

This stuff ?

https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/p...a=X&ei=FrZdUvXCBsOg0QW35ICwBg&ved=0CEAQ8wIwAA

Bit expensive

 

[dcdec]

I suppose you could consider it expensive from a diy point of view. If your time costs you nothing spending a few hours scrubbing the ceiling with hot water and then applying a mist coat or sizing and lining is fairly cheap, but form a pro point of view its ten minutes to cut in and roll.
It does have a multitude of uses and has never failed to solve a problem, it binds down chalky paint, peeling paint, damaged plasterboard, seals plaster, seals filler, stops paint cracking over caulk, evens out porosity and binds down and seals wallpaper paste.

£26 in Brewers i think and worth every penny.

 

[chrisb1357]

Hi

So do I just prep the celling like I would for painting if using this stuff. i.e sand with a 120grit paper to remove any holes I have filled then clean off dust then roll the stuff.

I plan on just painting it with Matt Paint after. How does the paint fix to this if its a sealer?

Chris

 

[dcdec]

Apply the gardz, then the first coat of paint which should highlight any flaws, fill and spot prime and apply second coat.

The gardz is a penetrating sealer so is absorbed into the plaster creating a surface that is equal in porosity. PVA isn't really a sealer, its a glue and the reason its a poor choice for sealing is it sits on the surface of the plaster which creates a poor bond between wall and pva and subsequently between pva and paint. I would presume that because the gardz penetrates the plaster a far stronger bond is formed, how and why exactly paint then sticks to it i don't really know, its obviously formulated to accept paint and form a strong bond with it, my best guess would be that it allows absorption of the paint rather than just sticking to like pva does. Any how its great stuff, apply sparingly and sheet up well if you need to, and some eye protection wouldn't be a bad idea if you're not used to rolling thin stuff.

 

[chrisb1357]

So if PVA is on the celling would this stuff still soak in as there is already a layer of PVA?

I guest there is no need to miss coat the first coat of paint and when you mean about filling after do I just fill then paint the areas I have filled with this stuff then the normal paint

Chris

 

[chrisb1357]

Hi

Today I sanded the celling with 120grit using my sanding pole and it seem via flakey and dry when sanding and did not feel smooth so I wonder if there was not any PVA on it and someone just did not paint the first coat correct last time.

For miss coats of dulux is it best to do 50/50 mix of paint and water and is It only one miss coat then normal coats of paint

Chris

 

[misterhelpful]

IMO, whoever painted the ceiling had mixed a lot of PVA in with the original emulsion/mist coat and this has given the paint the elasticity to be pulled off so easily. Maybe they also PVA'd the plaster first.

To mist coat with a diluted contract matt (approx. 20-25% water is my preference) is the best option, but if you are using regular retail Dulux vinyl matt I would go to around 30% water if it's still as thick as it was before they started changing their paints.

Gardz would be the other option but it could be overkill if the ceiling hasn't been sealed with anything previously. Unfortunately, we will probably never know!

 

[footprints]

Just try a square foot or so first and let it dry well before you do the whole thing you may still have trouble if any pva remains!

 

[Robbie uk]

Ill bet the plasterer said " Yeah make sure you pva it before painting"

 

[footprints]

I sometimes wonder if plasterers even put pva on their cornflakes

 

[chrisb1357]

Hi

I have had an email from Zinsser about Gardz as I wanted to double check with them as we are not sure if the celling has PVA or not you see.

They said the following about Gardz

I have discussed your problem with a colleague and we have some doubt as to whether the Gardz would be the right product for your situation. Gardz works better on a porous surface so we are not too sure how it will perform on a surface sealed with PVA.

Zinsser Bulls Eye 123 may be the one to go for. This is an adhesion promoting primer and sticks to many surfaces. It will also take an emulsion paint top coat.


So if the celling did not have any PVA on and I applied the above then it says I must use Gardz before applying Bulls eye

As taken from the datasheet

New plaster which is polished or dusty should be sealed with Zinsser Gardz®. Remove any unsoundly adhered coatings.