Help please with possible 5 wire meter system (Economy 7)

[happyhero]

Hi my meter is faulty, its actually completely stopped, so I can’t take any regular readings. It’s the typical wheel meter type (wheel stopped moving now) the only difference is it has a LOW and NORMAL readings feature with a little arrow that moves to show which one we are on.

Next to it is a big black box labeled Radio Teleswitch Series 2D. I think this has something to do with making the meter switch between LOW and NORMAL rate.

We have never had Storage radiators but got economy 7 because we worked out it was cheaper to run our machines in the cheap rate at night, so that’s what we do. I’ve tried comparing the usage with a normal non economy 7 tariff and it does seem to be better for us over the year to be on Economy 7.

Anyway I asked my energy company since they were offering the SMETS 2 Smart meters that can do Economy 7, if we could one fitted to solve the problem of our broken meter. They said yes but to send them a photo so they could see what system we have. They said it looks like a 5 wire system which they cannot fit a SMETS 2 meter to and so if we don’t have storage radiators to get an electrician in to just remove it.

I’ve checked my wiring and I have a normal system primarily but with the Teleswitch added, ie I have Live & Neutral from the head to the meter, then Live & Neutral from the meter to the consumer unit.

The additional bit is as follows in smaller cables, probably 6mm or 10mm all going to the Teleswitch. The are 3 wires to the Teleswitch, the first red wire seems to piggy back the Live IN of the meter, then there is a black which comes all the way from the head Neutral and finally there is another red which goes into the meter beside the Live out but has its own separate small connection by the looks of things.

Is this a 5 wire system (I mean there is actually 6 wires going into the meter although one seems paired up with the Live IN)?

How can an electrician remove the 5th wire and keep everything working, surely it’s there for a reason?

Would I still have to keep the Teleswitch if I had a new SMETS 2 Smart meter?

I have an electrical background but not as a domestic electrician but retired now and I don’t really know anything about this 5 wire system business. Any help appreciated.

 

[JohnD]

Hi my meter is faulty, its actually completely stopped

If this has happened you must immediately inform your supplier and they must arrange for the meter to be replaced. This is quite separate from the "which meter is best" question.

The idea of getting an electrician to tinker with the connections is completely wrong.

Having worked in the electricity industry, I would say that if you get a numbskull on the phone who doesn't know what to do (seems unlikely with a meter fault) you should write a two-line letter and post it. It will be logged and passed along until it reaches somebody who knows what to do.

Presumably nobody has interfered with your meter, or put a powerful magnet close to it?

 

[happyhero]

If this has happened you must immediately inform your supplier and they must arrange for the meter to be replaced. This is quite separate from the "which meter is best" question.

The idea of getting an electrician to tinker with the connections is completely wrong.

Having worked in the electricity industry, I would say that if you get a numbskull on the phone who doesn't know what to do (seems unlikely with a meter fault) you should write a two-line letter and post it. It will be logged and passed along until it reaches somebody who knows what to do.

Presumably nobody has interfered with your meter, or put a powerful magnet close to it?

But thats exactly what I did, I contacted my energy company and told them what was wrong and that is the reply I got suggesting that I need an electrician to remove the 5th wire so they can fit a SMETS 2 meter. Failing that they have offered a like for like meter. If anything it is the energy company that is kean to fit the Smart meter. I've just come round to the idea and so fancy going along with that idea as this seems an oppertunity to kill 2 birds with one stone. Its their technical department that are doing the advising, why would I go against their advice.

I'm not messing with the current meter and in any case I have been with them years so they know my usage and can use that so I have no concerns of them thinking it has beed fiddled with. I just want it fixed.

 

[flameport]

A 5 wire meter is used where storage heaters are connected to a separate consumer unit, and that is only powered overnight via the 5th wire from the meter. On most of those, the E7 only applies to the separate switched consumer unit and not to other loads connected.

As you don't have that arrangement, there isn't any problem changing to a smart meter, or having them just replace what's there with another similar one.

If you have been with a supplier for years and haven't changed tariff recently, it's very likely you are paying far too much for your electricity.
It's extremely unlikely that E7 is of any benefit for those without storage heaters, most suppliers charge more for the day units so E7 only makes sense if using a substantial proportion of electricity during the E7 times.

 

[JohnD]

But thats exactly what I did, I contacted my energy company and told them what was wrong and that is the reply I got

so bypass the numbskull and send the letter.

 

[SUNRAY]

A 5 wire meter is used where storage heaters are connected to a separate consumer unit, and that is only powered overnight via the 5th wire from the meter. On most of those, the E7 only applies to the separate switched consumer unit and not to other loads connected.

As you don't have that arrangement, there isn't any problem changing to a smart meter, or having them just replace what's there with another similar one.

If you have been with a supplier for years and haven't changed tariff recently, it's very likely you are paying far too much for your electricity.
It's extremely unlikely that E7 is of any benefit for those without storage heaters, most suppliers charge more for the day units so E7 only makes sense if using a substantial proportion of electricity during the E7 times.

It seems to me the OP is describing a very standard E7 system where the Teleswitch gives a signal to the meter's 5th wire to change to the cheap rate. Generally speaking the Teleswitch tends to also have a metered live supply which in turn feeds a second CU for storage heaters. However this has not been fitted as there are no heaters.

To HappyHero; the head, meter and Teleswitch are not your property and shouls all be secured with 'company seals'. It would be illegal for your electrician to tamper with any of it.

In my experience the smart meter fitter will simply remove the Teleswitch and given half a chance dump it in your wheelie bin on the way out.

 

[happyhero]

It seems to me the OP is describing a very standard E7 system where the Teleswitch gives a signal to the meter's 5th wire to change to the cheap rate. Generally speaking the Teleswitch tends to also have a metered live supply which in turn feeds a second CU for storage heaters. However this has not been fitted as there are no heaters.

To HappyHero; the head, meter and Teleswitch are not your property and shouls all be secured with 'company seals'. It would be illegal for your electrician to tamper with any of it.

In my experience the smart meter fitter will simply remove the Teleswitch and given half a chance dump it in your wheelie bin on the way out.

Thanks for your reply SUNRAY its very helpful, but what send the meter readings in, is that part of the SMETS 2 ability?

And do I understand you right that the person fitting the SMETS 2 meter will ditch all the extra cables to the Teleswitch meaning the 5th wire isn't a problem as it will simply be removed and effect nothing?

That would be my understanding, ie to remove the teleswitch and associated cables, I just wasnt sure if the teleswitch had to stay because I wasn't sure what sends the signal/meter readings out.

 

[SUNRAY]

Thanks for your reply SUNRAY its very helpful, but what send the meter readings in, is that part of the SMETS 2 ability?

And do I understand you right that the person fitting the SMETS 2 meter will ditch all the extra cables to the Teleswitch meaning the 5th wire isn't a problem as it will simply be removed and effect nothing?

Not only will he remove the wires, he should also remove the Teleswitch.

The whole idea of a smart meter is remote meter readings. Theoretically they will never need to visit again...