help plse-laying reclaimed hardwood flooring

[matt1098]

Hello all. Ive been a long time forum surfer and have found lots of good tips here. However i have a few question left re laying a newly purchased job lot of reclaimed 2 1/4 19mm thick t&g oak strip flooring. My plan is to re-lay the 50 sqm upstairs doing bedrooms, bathroom and landing. I want to use this to replace the original pine boards which are also 19mm thick. The joists are less than 30cm spaced so can see no reason why i cant secret nail these onto the joists. This means that i wont have to interfere with the original skirting boards which i have not pryed off v successfully on previous occasions-splitting etc.

On the back of what Ive learnt so far from here:
-I plan to use a porta nailer and 2 inch primatech nails
-I will face nail the first couple of boards at the start of a run and face nail the last couple at the end of a run (well screw them in down in fact)
-I will use Osmo hard wax oil (2 coats thinly applied) once sanded

My questions:

-I note that some people suggest that you must use a t bar between rooms as an expansion gap is essential between them. I really dont want to do that as I want the floor to be continuous and as the joists go across the house the strip would run through the doors. A raised threshold would IMHO look crap. Some rooms are slightly warmer than others and the bathroom would obviously have a higher humidity content. Views anyone plse? Perhaps you could use a cork strip flush with the boards in its place?

- The oak Im using as been stored in a dry but open sided barn for several months. It feels completely dry but Im wondering whether 2 weeks in the house before laying will be enough. Do people use some kind of humidity tester or is it just rule of thumb? If so how long indoors will be enough?

-In the past when laying reclaimed boards I have used joist clamps to squeeze the boards togther, eliminating gaps. I was going to do the same again as what with the old glue etc the t&gs dont easily slot together. However I understand the porta nailer does the same thing. Is that correct or would it still be worthwhile hiringa couple for this job?

-Do I need to glue the boards as well as secret nailing?

-The real head-scratcher for me is how to finish the floor when reaching a skirting board. I cant see how Im going to squeeze that flush to the last board and under the skirting board before face-nailing?

Thanks for any help in advance (probably WoodYou Like as always is v helpful- must get my order in for Osmo soon!)

 

[Bondai]

Hi Matt

I recently secret nailed a 22mm / 150mm solid oak random lengths T&G floor in an area 4m(2) (my living room). This was not reclaimed so not quite as prescious but worth taking your time over all the same.

Now I am by no means a pro and the following is a compact form of all the advice I collected and my personal experience.

So please only take the below as a guide and things to be aware of...


Do not secret nail the floor if they are much more than 150mm wide as timber this wide is susceptible to cupping.

My supplyer actually had grooves routed into the backs of the boards so they are less likely to cup.

If you are ok to secret nail.
Secret Nailer - excellent. I used one called a 'Porta Nailer'. Practice on some other wood 1st though as you need to get the blow with the malet just right so you get the nail down in one hit. Otherwise you my find with a 2nd blow - another nail to join the party. And you will have to pry this back out which is a nighmare.

Its important to get the nail down perfectly as any pertrusing will cause you problems when putting the boards together.

On occasions you may need to hit the nails you have already secret nailed because they pertrude a little so just get another nail or old flat head screwdriver and you can hit these nails once agin lightly with a hammer so they get to the required depth. be caeful bnot to hit the boards.

Personally I used x2 nails every 30cm

You can get secret nailers which are gas powered although I havnt used one of these. The manual one works fine.

Make sure you get the nails from the same place you hire the secret nailer from. Yes there are differerent types of nails for each brand of secret nailer and they are expensive so you dont want to buy the wrong ones.

Use a rubber malet to tap the boards into place - minimising any gap between the boards, so once you have your boards in place use the mallet to force them together a bit tighter (by tapping with the mallet). Do not use anything that may bruise and damage the wood and you will have to brace the wood so it doesnt move when you tap it together.

Once you have face nailed your 1st boards in place (at the edge of the room where you cannot secret nail). These should prove a sturdy brace so you can tap the other boards in place against them.

By the way. Make sure you lay out your boards loose 1st so you can plan where each one will go and ensure you get least cutting and waste. You also want to ensure that you dont get a collection of a certain colouring or grain or anything repetitive in a certain area so make sure you get a good mix of length and grains in a consistent manner throughout the room.

You may also want to have the floor finsihed with the boards working their way to to the edges of the room from the center of the room so you get a good balance either side of the room.

In this case you will either start with a double row (double row in center of room) or a single row (single row in center of room. This is more importnat where you have a fireplace to work around or another central feature where you need the boards to be symetrically layed either side of it.

NOTE
You will always have to start the fixing from the edge of the room.

You also want to ensure that no x2 ends of your boards (which are next to each other) will meet at the same cut (end at the same joist). They should stagger consistently. This will ensure the fitting doesnt look odd and also ensure max strength.

If the wood is properly dried for years then Im pretty sure your supplyer will have said there is no need for climatising but if you are not sure then leave the wood in the room where you are fitting it for at least 3 weeks.

IMPORTANT
You will need to allow for any movement and expansion by leaving 5mm gap around the room - apparently you can get cork to fill these areas if needed but ideally these expansion gaps will be covered by the skirting boards. Cant you remove these carefully and then refit ?

Osmo oil - cant recommend it enough.

 

[BREAKALEG]

I would be a little concerned about the moisture content of the timber an open sided barn could be damp i guess and the normal week or two for acclimatising is usually for new timber that has been dry stored.
5mm around the perimeter for expansion is not enough for an average room i would of thought more like 12-15mm just make sure your new beading/skirting will cover.
I have seen moisture meters used before to test the moisture content maybe you can hire or borrow one?

PS. some internal walls can be built on top of the pine boards!

 

[matt1098]

Bondai- Thanks very much for the v comprehensive post.Just one thing- not sure what you mean when you say that you have to start fixing from the edge of the room? I plan to start from one end (probably the doorway endas Ive read that getting this board so it looks square is the most important) and then work across the room to the other side. Anything wrong with this?

Breakaleg- yes I have wondered whether they would in the 1930's have laid a internal breeze type wall over the boards. Have not checked yet but I bloody hope not as then I will be in the sh~t. How on earth would you replace boards running across and under a wall? Doesn't bear thinking about!!

 

[WoodYouLike]

Breakaleg is right, you need at least 10mm expansion gap. Rule of thumb with Oak solid flooring: for every meter width of the room you need 4mm gap (with a minimum of 10mm) A room of 4 meter wide means 16mm gap and indeed NEVER fill that gap with cork or anything else.

Thresholds are highly recommended not just for different temperatures in various rooms. Humidity is another factor (bathroom!) and the narrowing of the width in door openings.
If you go for a flat divider (5-6mm flat strip of Oak bevelled on both sides) instead of a so-called T-bar it won't hardly show as a raised strip on your floor.

For secretly nailing: make sure every board connects with at least 3 joists for stability. Your boards don't have to end on a joist.

 

[matt1098]

WoodYouLike- Thanks for the advice. I will definitely make sure Ive got 10mm at each wall. The divider you describe- what would be the proper description so that I dont look like a complete numpty in some shop?

I have read alot of your v helpful posts- do you have any experience with the other issues raised. On the glueing front Im worried that at some point in the future the floor will have to come up (radiator replacement maybe) so dont want it to be any more of a nightmare than necessary.

Thanks

 

[WoodYouLike]

Cover strip twice bevelled is what our manufacturer calls it.

 

[matt1098]

WoodYoulike-I used that link but there was nothing titled "cover strip, twice bevelled" Which product you recommend for the flushest finish from your website plse?

I also saw the radiator hole oak rings that I shall have to purchase shortly along with the Osmo. Very good website

 

[matt1098]

actually I see you dont sell Osmo hardwax oil. Sorry, I was sure you did

 

[WoodYouLike]

We did/do, however in our experience the Inpa/Blanchon is as good (even better) than the more expensive Osmo brand.
Hence the fact they show on our webshop.

Blanchon is not as thick as Osmo and applies easier. Hope this helps

 

[Symptoms]

matt - 'cos you've got quite a bit of flooring to do consider using a pneumatic floor nailer instead of a Porta; an air jobbie will always (well 99.9% of the time) insert the cleat correctly to the correct depth. Striking the tool with the hammer 'bumps' the floorboard forward for a tight fit against it's neightbour at the same time as triggering the air pressure to insert the cleat. Using an air nailer will also be easier on your back.

It's also good that you plan to remove the old boards for direct cleating to the joists - IMO it makes for a better installation - fewer problems. Tip: only remove enough oldies as is necessary whilst working across the floor with the new as this will give you something to stand on - balancing on joists is no fun. Slipping the new stuff below the in-place skirtings is something we often do ... insert a board tight against a wall at one end then the rest of that row until it drops down touching the opposite skirting, then with a lever ease the wall-touching end away from the wall to give you're expansion gap. Check the gap at the other end and when happy nail.

Flooring clamps are handy to have especially on reclaimed stuff - hire a couple. One trick is to use an old chisel as a lever to ease the boards - position the board that needs to be budged, drive the chisel into the joist edge and then lever the board into position with the chisel then nail.

How to finish the last board UNDER the skirting? Do not nail the second from last board yet but loose fit it. Next establish how wide the last bit of board needs to be to get under the skirting and allow for expansion; cut this to width*. Lift the 2nd from last board out. Slip the last bit under the skirting as far as it'll go, then fit the second from last board, with levers squeeze the 2 last ones together and into position. Fix by surface nailing. Obviously careful measuring is needed but it is a sucessful way of doing this with the skirtings in place.

Lastly - spend quality time cleaning all the tougues and grooves of old debris before you begin, failure to do so will result in some boards not closing-up tight.

*if you don't have a table saw get a cheapo one from one of the sheds (less than £100) as it'll be invaluable for trimming/ripping stuff the width; forget doing it by hand or with a hand-held circular saw.

We done loads of reclaimed stuff over the years so if you want more info post again.

 

[matt1098]

symptoms- Thanks for some really helpful advice.

I hear what u say re the air nailer in preference of the porta. Only prob is that I plan to do the job over several weeks after work each day and at weekends (my own tip to self-is never do DIY when had enough and want to stop as thats when the bodging instinct kicks in!). I will do as you suggest and just lift a few boards as I go along. Im currently trawling fleabay to buy a porta with a view to selling on when finished.

Do you have any experience re reclaimed oak and its humidity? Would a couple of weeks in the house be enough for wood that feels 100% dry but has been outside under cover for a few weeks/months

 

[mattysupra]

That moister will depend. 2 weeks is normally fine but as yours is out doors at the moment it may take much longer. You need a wood moister meter to test it really.

 

[matt1098]

Mattysupra- thanks for that. Could you tell me:

-what should be the ideal moisture content for reclaimed oak strip?

-Are all the meters you can buy for about £20 ( there seems loads of them, made by non specific co's) ok or would you recommend a particular make (no point buying a £20er if its not going to be accurate)?

Thanks

 

[Symptoms]

matt - why not buy an air jobbie (either used or new) then sell it on when you're finished. Yeh, you'll also need a compressor but these are surprisingly cheap; it will also allow you the use other air tools (like a finish nailer for the awkward bits where the floor nailer won't fit). If you do go down the air route (and I think you should) consider getting a rubber air line (nice and flexy) and not a plakka (including the curly coil type) one 'cos you'll get fatigued 'fighting' against it.

Try to get all the wood into the house asap, get a meter and lay when the readings are maybe in the 8 to 12% range. The only way to avoid the meter is for the stuff to have been stored in-situ for a good length of time.

Remember, you're likely to have spent a tidy sum on the reclaimed stuff so it needs to go down correctly, therefore it makes sense not to skimp on the prep or on installation techniques. We want to look forward to your posts on how fabulous it looks and not ones about how to fix bulging/cupping/creaking floors.