help with keston 170 rubbish

[lynnehallam]

help anybody out there

has anyone got any information (wiring diagrams) for a keston 170 control box conversion. the original part was ram-2emc22-07 we have ordered a new control unit and what has been delivered is a ram to pectron conversion kit. the problem is there must have been a variant inbetween these units ie our ram is a ram-2emc22-07 but the conversion is for a ram-2emc22-02 and the wiring diagram do not show the relay that is still in ours so need to know what the conversion is from the 07 to the 02 (ram). running round in circles cannot get in touch with anybody because it is christmas, we have no heating, unit fitted but blower not working now but was originally(ie not original fault) original fault no ignition/spark. any help appreciated

 

[ChrisR]

Any good??
I have no info on conversions, or different RAM modules.

same as:

 

[Mr Smyth]

If I remember rightly its the diagram that Keston supply that is wrong. Call the tech help line and they will explain which of the 2 diagrams to follow.

Although there boilers are crap the tech help they supply is very good. Probably need to wait till Tuesday though.

They will talk you through what you need to do.

Happy Christmas

 

[lynnehallam]

thanks for trying to help, have the wiring diargram for the ram-02emc22 with relay in off the internet. we also have wiring diagram for the ram-02emc22-02 which has no relay in, but this is the diagram they have given us with the conversion kit to pektron ie no relay in circuit. what my husband wants to know does ne have to rewire the boiler to remove the relay prior to puting in the conversion. we know we can call keston next week but we do not have any heating now, plus other bits on the drawing seem to be wrong or different (numbers/colours etc) again thanks very much for trying to help

 

[Agile]

I may be wrong but I think the external fan relay was added as an afterthought because if the fan became stalled the soldered in fuse inside the ignition unit would blow theoretically requiring a new £100 PCB.

Tony

 

[lynnehallam]

problem solved we hope, heating now running with new pektron unit fitted and a re jig of wiring, fingers crossed it keeps going, had to remove wire for air blower pressure switch (as shown on a drawing), anybody know why ?

 

[Keston]

problem solved we hope, heating now running with new pektron unit fitted and a re jig of wiring, fingers crossed it keeps going, had to remove wire for air blower pressure switch (as shown on a drawing), anybody know why ?

The new board only takes 1 feed of 240v to get it going where as the old Ram board took 2 lots of 240.

for future reference follow the diagram that matches your boiler. either you have a relay or you don't

 

[markbol]

problem solved we hope, heating now running with new pektron unit fitted and a re jig of wiring, fingers crossed it keeps going, had to remove wire for air blower pressure switch (as shown on a drawing), anybody know why ?

can you tell me which wires you changed, I have exactly the same problem.New control box wrong drawing,no technical support on good friday !!!

 

[Keston]

What boiler? Basically you want 2 remove the White wire from the air pressure switch, ONLY the White!!! And if the pink wire from the flow overheat is in terminal 1 then move that into the terminal you just took that White wire from(terminal 7 I believe) if it's not in terminal 1 then just leave it and u should be good 2 go!

Some of the harness's that were made from the factory that comes with the new board had 2 wires the wrong way round. Just look on the diagram and u shud be able 2 work it out which 2, if you can't I will attempt 2 xplain

 

[Boilerman2]

The OP has my sympathy!! we had to do the same conversion ourselves at a local golf club, new control box and a wiring harness, some very vague instructions, we managed to get the boiler going eventually, much the same as the OP Keston could do a lot better!!

P.S. now having an issue with setting up an MBCA control on a Hoval topgas, Hoval will happlily provide the control box (£420 nett) but won't give any clues as to access codes to make the necessary changes to LPG!

 

[Keston]

P.S. now having an issue with setting up an MBCA control on a Hoval topgas, Hoval will happlily provide the control box (£420 nett) but won't give any clues as to access codes to make the necessary changes to LPG!

I know we don't like giving out the details on changing a boiler from LPG - NG, NG - LPG because one version is cheaper than the other cant think which.

To be fair on us with this gay conversion its not the most complicated of changes true there are about 6-7 different wiring variations within the K series so we only put 2 wiring diagrams with the conversion (the most common) otherwise we would get endless calls asking which of the 6-7 drawings 2 follow

 

[echase]

We have a pair of Keston 170s that keep failing (surprise, surprise, please no lectures on just binning then as we know all that and will do it in a year or two). A succession of new Pektron units, igniters and igniter cables have gone in, the latest only a month ago. Yet despite this it fails to light about 30% of attempts but when it does light only takes a spark or two to do so. When not working it goes through the ignition sequence 3 times and then locks out with the LED flashing 3 times. So I interpret that to mean the air flow switch is OK as it would not get to the sparking stage if it were not.

The Pektron unit puzzles me as it has 2 small spade terminals 10mm apart labelled HT/ CN8 and HT/CN7 and the spark coil high voltage winding is wired between them. With the wire on CN7 it behaves as above but I note that sometimes a spark is erratically jumping between the 2 spades. What fault is that indictating and igniter of voltage?

The gas man cometh in 2 weeks to have another go at this but as he admits he does not really know what he is doing I thought I’d try this forum to see if can get some help for him.

What is the second terminal for and should it be left unconnected, as ours is? I tried connecting an old lead and igniter to it (with tip of igniter near case) but could not get a spark out of it at the igniter. By tracing the PCB circuit CN8 is connected directly to the terminal CN1, which is marked Flame, and to the chips inside via lots of resistors etc. No external connection to CN1. So seems to be something to do with flame detection. What is puzzling is the route the spark takes from the spark coil to earth. One end of the spark coil is CN7 connected to the igniter. The earthy end of the coil has no direct earth connection but instead appears to only have a 90pF 275 Volt capacitor to earth it. At the high frequency of the sparking I guess this conducts but don’t really understand how it's 275V rating is enough for the thousands of volts of the spark.

The second boiler works OK apart from the fan not always starting up because it’s stiff to turn. I think the bearings are worn and I am planning to replace them myself and then get the gas man to bolt it back in as is need to be a Gas Safe person doing that step. Anyone tried this bearing replacement? I am hoping it’s just a pair of standard roller bearings. I see you can buy reconditioned part exchange fans for less that half the price of new and I am assuming all they have done is rebearing them and change the motor capacitors.

One thing putting us off replacing them is the £10,000 quote we have had for the pair. The man says that Keston flue positions are difficult to replicate so we would have to do some costly remodelling. Does anyone know a new boiler that would be fairly similar so easier to fit?

 

[Agile]

I think that I can guess the fault on your boiler but we dont gas gas/combustion related information on this open forum.

It does not sound as if your engineer is as familiar with these boilers as he needs to be.

I am surprised your fan motor bearings have failed as they are well sized.

If you are good with pulling bearings off then you will probably be able to replace them they are only industry bearings.

Tony

 

[mickyg]

i refuse to repair this cr*p anymore. chuck em in a skip asap. stop wasting your money.

 

[echase]

I think that I can guess the fault on your boiler but we dont gas gas/combustion related information on this open forum.

It does not sound as if your engineer is as familiar with these boilers as he needs to be.

I am surprised your fan motor bearings have failed as they are well sized.

If you are good with pulling bearings off then you will probably be able to replace them they are only industry bearings.

Tony

Thanks Tony for input. What other than bearings would cause the motor to fail to start particularly after sitting idle last summer? It was really stiff. I changed the motor capacitors as they measured about half the rated capacitance but this did not totally cure it.

Don’t worry I am not going to touch anything gas related. Just trying to help our gas man out as he certainly is floundering. He suggested we ask Keston to do it but they have stopped visiting ones this old. But they did say they would give phone support to our man next time he comes. Can you give me a clue without the details as to whether this is fixable without much cost? So far 2 different gas firms have just thrown electrical parts at it over several years but the repairs do not seem to last long. Does it need something more radical and expensive like a combustion chamber?

Do the gas valves ever stick as one interpretation of fault is that the valve is not properly opening so insufficient gas is coming through.

Due to frequency of attention needed we leave the door off the boiler front. Would this affect its ability to light or perform well? ? It’s a slight electric shock risk but this dedicated boiler room is not a public space.