Hikoki / Hitachi gassless framing nailer

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Looking to get a nail gun, will mainly be used for 63mm nails into cladding and fencing (could've really done with buying one last year in hindsight!)


These Hikoki 90mm gasless guns have been out a couple of years now, do many on here use them? How have you got on in terms of reliability - read a comment online about someone having to send it away to have the "sealed for life" air recharged.
 
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Had one since January. It replaced a 5 year old deWalt DCN692 cordless as my personal nailer. Happy with it. Yes, the sealed for life compressed air canister actually gas a fixed life and they can sometimes leak. Same goes for the ones used by Senco and Milwaukee. Mine recently showed a service fault and needed to be sent away - still waiting for its' return to find out what the fault was.
 
I've had both the Hikoki and the Milwaukee in my hand and they feel unwieldy in comparison to my Senco.

As regards the "sealed for life" cannister, surely its constantly recharged?
I was off the impression that these machines are actually mini air compressors?
 
AFAIK both the Senco Fusion and Milwaukee guns use a closed system with pressurised nitrogen and the system always leaks a wee bit, so over time the gas cylinder needs to be replaced.

I understand that the Hikoki is slightly different - in their guns the piston rests part way down the cylinder when the tool is powered off but when powered on, the brushless motor drives the piston to the top position, compressing the sealed air into a reservoir. Depressing the trigger causes the compressed air to be released which in turn causes the piston to shoot down and drives the nail into the wood. Like any pressurised system (including gas nailers) they have seals which can wear or fail, but in the case of the Hikokis this replacement and the sunsequent repressurisation of the reservoir can only be done by a Hikoki Authorised Service Centre.

This repressurisation is little different to the repressurisation of a hydro pneumatic suspension system (e.g Citroen top end cars, self levelling systems on many cars including Mercedes Benz, Rolls Royce, Range Rover, etc) where "sealed for life" spheres effectively have a unit life of 60 to 90k before they need to be rebuilt and repressurised or replaced. Just remember, those gas nailers you are so fond of need to be stripped and cleaned regularly as well as having a tune up kit (replacement cylinder seals, etc) fitted every 12 months and so are hardly maintenance free

The guns with mini surface compressors are Ryobi Air Strike and the late but unlamented Porter-Cable guns

As to the feel you either like them, or you don't. Personally, I detest gas nailers - mainly because of the gas and the fact that earlier guns were a royal pain to strip and repair on site. They also cost a LOT more to run
 
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Compressed nitrogen.
I understand this now.
Operated a large guillotoine once and the blade was driven down by hydraulic force rams and lifted back using nitrogen force rams.
 
Had one since January. It replaced a 5 year old deWalt DCN692 cordless as my personal nailer. Happy with it. Yes, the sealed for life compressed air canister actually gas a fixed life and they can sometimes leak. Same goes for the ones used by Senco and Milwaukee. Mine recently showed a service fault and needed to be sent away - still waiting for its' return to find out what the fault was.
Interesting to hear, how did it compare alongside the dewalt?
The Dewalt uses a spinning flywheel does it? In 5 years of use how did that perform, did it ever need repair?


I was all set to buy the hikoki a few weeks ago from Toolstop, but by the time I got to the checkout page they were out of stock. Apparently supply issues in the UK due to covid!
 
If you are not doing a lot of nailing then go for the battery only nailer.
The gas guns are proven and reliable.
Especially the Senco framing nailers.
And cleaning them is easy. A diy job.
And they are lighter.
I know guys at work who have to use two hands using the gas nailer.
A battery only device and they would need a third hand.:mrgreen:
 
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Interesting to hear, how did it compare alongside the dewalt?
They both do the same job, without gas. The biggest difference is that the Hikoki is more powerful, although for most softwood first fix jobs it makes little practical difference. There was a comment about balance, but let me say that from experience it makes little difference to useability. The biggest differencev between the gas nailers and cordless nailers is the weight, and on a long hot day that extra weight on your shoulders and arms when working above your head is a real issue. Fortunately I don't do much of that sort of thing. Most people don't in the real world.

The biggest pluses of the Hikoki over the DW are that it fires faster (you can bump fire rapid nail for short periods - much faster than the DW) and there is no spool up delay as there is on the DW. That's it, really, but as I have stated before my decision was as much informed by the need for a single battery solution where the second fix nailersxwould be capable of sinking pins in close grained hardwoods. Not a common need, I agree, but one that Hikoki can achieve

The Dewalt uses a spinning flywheel does it? In 5 years of use how did that perform, did it ever need repair?
No. I did go through batteries, drive pins, return springs, etc - but you'd go through batteries, drive pins, seals, etc with a gas nailer.

If you are not doing a lot of nailing then go for the battery only nailer.
The gas guns are proven and reliable.
Let me set the record straight, here. If you are a roofer, who is working at height, firing nails in all day, week in and week out then a gas nailer makes sense. Up to a point. Because they are light and can handle low to medium volume. But the problem with them is volume - that and health and safety law. The law dictates just how many nails you can legally fire with a nailer in a day - assuming that you don't want to end up suffering from vibration white finger in your middle age. With any gas nailer that figure is under 4000 nails a day. Don't believe me then go and look up the term HAVS (Hand Arm Vibration Syndrome) and do a bit of basic research.

Cordless nailers have a higher permissable nailing figure because they transmit less shock back into the hand or arm for each nail driven.

Pneumatic nailers, the real kings of volume nailing in terms of speed, reliability and longevity, etc are the best of all. If you think that you are nailing volume with a gas nailer doing a box of nails a day (circa 3300 nails in a Paslode box), you aren't. And in any case, if you are regularly doing more than that with a gas nailer you are storing up life changing health problems for the future. The real volume jobs are ones like multiple skin diaphragm floors where you can be putting 150 to 600 nails per 8 x 4 sheet into the top skin. Those jobs can only be tackled by pneumatic nailers because gas nailers regardless of make or model (and I am talking about Paslode, Hitachi, Senco, Rawl and Hilti) all overheat somewhere around the 30 to 40 minute non-stop usage mark and then require 1 hour or more to cool down (to be honest, though, cordless nailers also get hot and drain batteries). So gas nailers aren't as wonderful as you portray them to be when used in true high volume tasks

For general mixed carpentry work where you may be nailing studwork one week, a roof the next then a shed the week after the volume of nails used isn't so great that a cordless nailer can't handle the task - and the fact that more and more guys are ditching smelly gas buying them seems to back up that statement
 
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So gas nailers aren't as wonderful as you portray them to be when used in true high volume tasks

I have never deemed them to be superior in any way to an air nailer.
We have 4 air nailers in the workshop. And nothing will touch them.

1 - air nailers.
2 - Gas nailers
3 - Battery nailers.

And thats how it is.
For portability gas and battery are No 1.
For reliability (excluding air) Gas is No1.
We have 6 Sencos. And in the last three years they have had zero down time with break downs.
Apart from one guy dropping his into 3 feet of water.
 
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In terms of reliability I don't see much difference between gas and air nailers. I do have experience of gas nailers going back as far as the old black stick battery Paslodes (anyone old enough to remember using them?), which incidentally were as unreliable as anything, plus about 12 or so years experience of using battery nailers (initially 2nd fix, more recently 1st fix).

I feel the choice you make now depends on what you are doing, and that for an ever increasing number of tradesman (the ones who do jobs other than just nailing roofs) that choice is ever more a cordless nailer which utilises an existing battery system.

This is a choice to buy a gun which isn't temperamental (as gas nailers can be); which doesn't need regular stripping and cleaning (a relatively dirty task using noxious chemicals, e.g brake cleaner); and which won't let you down on a night or weekend job because the gas canister is out of date, or the cannister adaptor doesn't work or the the damned thing just doesn't have any pressure in it. It'll also cost less to run because you won't need to pay a premium.for nails with the gas
 
(a relatively dirty task using noxious chemicals, e.g brake cleaner);

Not so.
I use white spirits and a brush. Then an air line to blast it all out.
Takes about 5 minutes.
Sometimes I'll just hit it with the air line.

Whilst your battery jobby is off getting fixed, I'll still be nailing away.
 
Off getting fixed? The DW never went away - I always did my own spanner work on it on the rare occasions it required any. Gas nailers, on the other hand require regularcstripping and cleaning - far more intervention, in fact, than the cordless nailers. The chemical recommended by Paslode et al for cleaning guns is actually closely related to brake cleaner (which is toxic) and is required to break down the carbon on the cylinder sides as well as the other residues left by combustion. White spirit (another nasty, smelly hydrocarbon) apparently doesn't clean efficiently according to the Rawl rep. Of course, if you don't mind driving home in thde van smelling like a painter's rag, then it'll be fine - unless your missus is like mine and detests the smell
 
Gas nailers, on the other hand require regularcstripping and cleaning

Not so.
We had a senco run for 18 months before stripping. And thats used virtually every day.
Clean mine about every few months..
What reps recommend and what works in reality are two different scenarios.
Our gas is all Rawlplug clean combustion fuel cells.
 
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I wouldn't touch an Estwing. Personal choice, but I have never liked them. My framing hammer these days is a Daluge (titanium head). Less stress on the elbow and shoulder

The first Senco GT90CH I ever owned had to be returned to Poppers-Senco in Warrington when brand new. The capacitor (an £80 component in 2007) had failed. I have similarly had issues with other gas nailers over the years - a particular bugbear being the microswitches on Paslodes, Sencos and Rawls. They all seem to break, or otherwise fail at some time or another. Just like any other power tools, in fact

To put things in perspective, I currently have two Hikoki NR1890s, a couple of Rawl WW90CH gas nailers and a couple of pneumatic nailers (a Senco, a DW and a Hitachi). For general use the Hikokis get a lot more use nowadays, and the Rawls which tend to get used as backups or when I need extra bodies nailing for a day or two). The pneumatics are reserved for the high volume stuff, like diaphragm flooring.
 

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