Hip to Gablensure over existing 2 storey extension

[Jitno123]

Hi there,

New to this forum, after some advice regarding a hip to gable with a dormer loft conversion.

My house has a 2 storey side extension which currently has a flat roof. I have planning permission to add a roof over the side extension, but at the same time I'd like to have a loft conversion with a dormer, which I believe should fall under PD.

I have a few queries:
1) I've been told by an architect that most councils will not allow for a hip to gable as the property already has an extension. How true do you think this is?

2) I have also been advised that the dormer can only go above the original house and not above the extended part. Again has this happened to anyone before?

3) Lastly Could someone briefly explain the permitted development process to me please, as what happens once I know the work can be undertaken under PD.

All help is appreciated!

Many thanks

 

[Ian H]

We are doing exactly the same minus the gable.

We got a 'Pro' to design it, at first he designed the dormer too wide so it extended onto the roof over the extension, it was knocked back by the council because 'it occupied a disproportional are of the roof.. It's been redesigned now so will pass, we just have to wait a bit longer.

We have to pay the council £85 fee to (I think) make sure the dormer is a permitted development. I should have asked the same questions as you have when we stared, it would have saved a lot of confusion later on. Your council will have documents and guidance on their website, the main one may be that the total area of extended roof cannot be more than 50 cu/mtrs.

 

[^woody^]

It seems that what you want to do is PD.

There is a person on here who's cat knows a lot about this stuff. He may be along soon to advise.

Permitted development does not have a process. If the work is PD, or you just build to the PD dimensions and criteria, then that's it.

 

[tony1851]

Thankfully I'm not the one with a cat, but fwiw, here's my 2-cent's worth;
You would need planning permission to put a gabled tiled roof over your flat-roof side extension.
You would not need p.p. to build a flat-roof dormer on the rear roof slope of the original house, as long as it was less than 50m³ in
volume, and did not encroach over the side-extension part (and a few other minor conditions as well).

 

[Jitno123]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated!

In terms of PD do I not have to apply for certificate of lawfulness/submit structural plans ect? Also a 3sqm porch was built 4years ago under PD so has that reduced my PD "allowance"?

I will try get in contact with the planning dept regarding the hip to gable over the extension. As of now I have the granted PP for a hip roof, so will need to enquire if they'll let me have a gable over an extension.

My builder is ready to submit his buildings notice for building control, so need to clarify the bits above before he does!

Again appreciate all the help
Thanks

 

[tony1851]

In terms of PD do I not have to apply for certificate of lawfulness/submit structural plans ect? Also a 3sqm porch was built 4years ago under PD so has that reduced my PD "allowance"?

If a build is going to be p.d., you do not need to apply for a LDC. 'Structural plans' is a Building Control issue (nothing to do with Planning) and you can build with or without plans. The BCO might ask for structural calculations for beams etc.
The porch has no effect any other p.d. extension you may do.

 

[^woody^]

There is an appeal decision from 2010 which seems very similar to the OP's situation.

In that appeal, the owner had planning permission for a first floor side extenion with a hipped roof. They built that but built a gabled roof over the extension, and then applied for a LDC for the hip to gable conversion.

The LDC appeal was dismissed on the basis that the work was actually done as a continuous operation. It was stated that for the hip to gable conversion to have been considered as PD, the extension and roof should have been completed first, and then converted.

So it would seem that if the OP has an existing extension and roof, then it could be converted to PD if there is a break in the work.

 

[Jitno123]

Thanks for all the info everyone much appreciated!

 

[napoleondynamite]

You might have an issue with your overall volume limit if you want to build it all in one go, i.e. if the gable extension and the dormer total more than 50m3

 

[tony1851]

FWIW, my guess is that if OP tried to continue a flat-roof dormer over the extension part, it would get turned down by Planning because they don't usually like flat-roof dormers. But if he kept it to over the existing house (and of course < 50m³) there's nowt the council can do about that.

 

[Ian H]

FWIW, my guess is that if OP tried to continue a flat-roof dormer over the extension part, it would get turned down by Planning because they don't usually like flat-roof dormers. But if he kept it to over the existing house (and of course < 50m³) there's nowt the council can do about that.

Having read that I'm wondering why the guy that's drawing mine is going through the council?

The extended roof on mine is an extension of the existing hip end, it's going sideways 3mtrs, the house is 8mtrs deep and the area of that is 32.4sq/mtrs which leaves the rest for a dormer over the original house.

Would there be any issue with the PD if I were to swap a single flat roofed dormer for a pair of pitched roof dormers?

 

[tony1851]

Would there be any issue with the PD if I were to swap a single flat roofed dormer for a pair of pitched roof dormers?

No; if it's permitted development, it doesn't matter as long as it doesn't go above the existing ridge.
But pitched roof dormers would give you less useable headroom.

 

[Ian H]

Thanks Tony,

Just to be sure, it wouldn't be PD to extend this roof (keeping it hipped) over the flat roofed extension would it?

 

[tony1851]

By convention, a new hipped roof over that side extension would normally not be permitted development, as the council would consider the whole extension (ie flat-roof extension plus proposed hipped roof) as one new extension, which would need planning permission because it's two-storey and on the side.
However, there was an appeal case last June (google Hilton v DCLG) which threw this established convention up in the air.
But rather than argue case law with Rochdale council, why not just apply for p.p? In your case you will undoubtedly get it because it would be an improvement to the look of the house.

 

[Ian H]

We've already done that but ended up very unhappy with the company that drew the plans.

We started in May last year and still don't have the finished plans, I feel we received poor advice through the process.

If you would have said it would have been PD I would have screamed.