Hive install with Gravity HW

[Edge84]

Hi all,

I'm hoping someone can help. I have just installed a Hive, however am having a few issues. The Hive system comes on, but does not work the boiler.

Firstly, the programmer is the same as the above (Lp241). I've taken this out and replaced with the receiver. Wiring all matched (N, L, 3 and 4).

The old thermostat was a Drayton Ts142, however I don't think this was wired in correctly. It only had 2 wires, red in L and black in N, earth was in the cable, but not affixed to the stat.

This is where it gets interesting.

I traced the cables back and decommissioned them from the wiring centre box. The red was linked to a blue wire in terminal 4 which comes off terminal 4 (CH) on the programmer (now hive receiver). The black wire was linked to the brown wire in terminal 5 which is the L from the boiler.

Now, the main wiring box is the same as the one in this thread, however the wiring is completely different. Let's just say the previous owners of this house were quite "creative" with their wiring.

We don't have CYL SAT or 2 port valve. We have 5 main wires coming in, the mains, the programmer (L & N), the programmer (3 & 4), the boiler, and the pump.

Can anyone advise the best way forward with this?

Should I rewire it properly using the correct terminals, or is there a linking wire I've missed which is a simple fix?

My brain says I just need to link the CH from the receiver with the boiler or something, but not 100% sure, and don't want to blow the system.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Edge84]

Hi all,

I'm hoping someone can help. I have just installed a Hive, however am having a few issues. The Hive system comes on, but does not work the boiler.

https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/hive-install-with-drayton-lp241.517422/

Firstly, the programmer is the same as the above (LP241). I've taken this out and replaced with the receiver. Wiring all matched (N, L, 3 and 4).

The old thermostat was a Drayton Ts142, however I don't think this was wired in correctly. It only had 2 wires, red in L and black in N, earth was in the cable, but not affixed to the stat.

This is where it gets interesting.

I traced the cables back and decommissioned them from the wiring centre box. The red was linked to a blue wire in terminal 4 which comes off terminal 4 (CH) on the programmer (now hive receiver). The black wire was linked to the brown wire in terminal 5 which is the L from the boiler.

Now, the main wiring box is the same as the one in this thread, however the wiring is completely different. Let's just say the previous owners of this house were quite "creative" with their wiring.

We don't have CYL SAT or 2 port valve. We have 5 main wires coming in, the mains, the programmer (L & N), the programmer (3 & 4), the boiler, and the pump.

Can anyone advise the best way forward with this?

Should I rewire it properly using the correct terminals, or is there a linking wire I've missed which is a simple fix?

My brain says I just need to link the CH from the receiver with the boiler or something, but not 100% sure, and don't want to blow the system.

Any advice would be appreciated.

View attachment 210991 View attachment 210992

 

[stem]

Sounds like you may have an old heating system of the type that were plumbed so that the pump circulated water only around the radiators, but the hot water cylinder was not connected to the pump, it relied on the natural principle of hot water rising and cooler water falling to naturally circulate hot water around the hot water cylinder. This is known as gravity circulation.

A tell tale sign of a gravity system is that in order to have the heating on, the hot water also has to be on at the same time in order to start the boiler. Usually when selecting the heating to come 'on' at the programmer it automatically switches the hot water 'on' with it as well.

Gravity Hot Water, Pumped Central Heating

Fully Pumped

If you identify your system as being one with 'gravity circulation' of hot water, then you will need to set the Hive (the Dual Channel version is required) to its gravity setting in order to get the boiler to work when CH is selected. What that will do is switch the HW 'on' automatically whenever the CH is switched 'on'. If that is the case, then here are the Hive instructions:

The old thermostat was a Drayton Ts142, however I don't think this was wired in correctly. It only had 2 wires, red in L and black in N, earth was in the cable, but not affixed to the stat.

Something doesn't sound right with this. If there were only 2 wires one would be live, and one a switched live (think of it as a switch, like a light switch) just because a wire is black doesn't mean it is a neutral. It's what its connected to that determines its function, not the colour of its insulation.

I think the photo below is a TS142....

....if so, the terminals are:

1= Live
2= Switched Live
E= Earth
4= Neutral

If the two wires you mention were in 1 & 2 then they should be linked together at their origin.

 

[Edge84]

Sounds like you may have an old heating system of the type that were plumbed so that the pump circulated water only around the radiators, but the hot water cylinder was not connected to the pump, it relied on the natural principle of hot water rising and cooler water falling to naturally circulate hot water around the hot water cylinder. This is known as gravity circulation.

A tell tale sign of a gravity system is that in order to have the heating on, the hot water also has to be on at the same time in order to start the boiler. Usually when selecting the heating to come 'on' at the programmer it automatically switches the hot water 'on' with it as well.

Gravity Hot Water, Pumped Central Heating

Fully Pumped

If you identify your system as being one with 'gravity circulation' of hot water, then you will need to set the Hive (the Dual Channel version is required) to its gravity setting in order to get the boiler to work when CH is selected. What that will do is switch the HW 'on' automatically whenever the CH is switched 'on'. If that is the case, then here are the Hive instructions:

Just a note for next time you post; you should have really started your own new thread. Adding your question to someone else's thread is known as Hi-jacking and is against the forum rules. Don't do it know though otherwise you will be duplicating your post which is also against the forum rules.

Hi Stem,

Thanks for the reply. I had posted this last night, then realised so created a new thread, and forgot to delete this one.

Thanks for your advice. Looking at what you've said, yes looks like we do have a gravity fed system. When turning on the Ch previously, the hot water would also come on, so that makes sense.

Can you advise what I need to do with the wiring in terminals 4 and 5 on the centre box? Do I just link them together to create a closed circuit which is controlled by the CH on the Hive receiver?

At the moment, when I press the CH button on Hive, nothing happens on the boiler.

 

[stem]

Hi, I edited may last post whilst you were writing the above, so there's some extra info for you about the room thermostat added to it.

With the wiring as it originally was, all you have to do is:

1. Swap the programmer for the Hive (Set it to gravity mode)

2. Bridge the thermostat switching wires.

Everything else stays as it was.

 

[ianmcd]

You might want to tidy up the wiring a bit though, more whiskers than a cat

 

[ericmark]

Hive it seems is internal programmed when you want it to work with gravity system with no motorised valve, so one set of contacts works the boiler and other one the pump. This was the original method however because the programmer and thermostat are combined with Hive, there is no thermostat, and even the old programmer had switches and mechanical links inside so when central heating ran so did the domestic hot water, it was a very poor system, which was latter modified, this added a tank thermostat, so in summer you could use the central heating for domestic hot water, and then it went to this where a zone valve was added to limit DHW temperature in the summer, and they are all called C-Plan and they all use thermo syphon to heat domestic hot water, the last version can't be used with some old boilers as they can over heat.

So the question is there a motorised valve or a tank thermostat, as that will tell you which version of the C-Plan has been used. There are exceptions mine has no tank thermostat and two pumps and two motorised valves, however Hive will work with any of the plans I have shown but seems when set to gravity it is for use with top plan.

 

[denso13]

So the question is there a motorised valve or a tank thermostat

We don't have CYL SAT or 2 port valve.

It's seems a simple pumped heating with gravity HW, nothing more.

 

[ericmark]

Sorry missed it.