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Hive Multi Zone install on Logic Combi ESP35 boiler

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by Stillsy, 2 Dec 2020.

  1. Stillsy

    Stillsy

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    Hi

    my very first post so hoping that i can find some advice please.

    I have read a few older posts relating to this topic but have a pretty quick question i think.

    Where do i place my two hive receivers? From the research i have done for my boiler and system, which is two zone heating (downstairs and/or upstairs) i have seen two different opinions.

    I have two thermostats on the wall, one downstairs and one upstairs which are wired in with two connected wires (one COM and one NO) with an extra blue one (assuming this is neutral) which is not wired in to the thermostats.

    My main question is, do i install the receivers at the thermostat locations and wire them in with the bridging wire from terminal 1 to L on the hive receiver OR do i install these at the main wiring box that is in an upstairs cupboard next to the zonal switching pumps?

    I think i am right in saying that i defo do not need to get inside the boiler and wire them both up from there.

    I am stuck more on the best location for them - seems much simper if replacing the existing thermostats with receivers as it really straightforward by the looks of it - however if at the main box then more complicated as will need to suss out which wire is which.

    many thanks in advance.
     
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  3. Chris_W

    Chris_W

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    Receivers need to be able to connect to zone valves, so best in the cupboard, as you’ll also need permanent live and permanent neutral connections as well as on/off switching. The existing thermostats can be set on maximum, or wiring joined together.
     
  4. Stillsy

    Stillsy

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    Hi Chris

    thanks for the response. I have a bit more information and pictures. I have attached the existing thermostat and it's wiring (there are two of these, one only lower floor and one on upper floor), the dual pumps which are in the cupboard upstairs and the wiring box attached to these.

    Dual zone in cupboard.jpg dual zone wiring in cupboard.jpg Existing stat wiring.jpg existing stat.jpg

    From what i gather, i need to wire my two Hive receivers into the wiring box where the dual pumps are and remove the original thermostats and join the wires? Am i right in that i dont need to wire anything into the actual boiler (i have not yet removed the cover and see some people warn against this).

    If the above is correct, do you know which wires i need to use in the wiring box, there are lots of them and not sure which is which. I think that i need a permanent live/neutral, a COM wire and a ON wire (one for each of the zones so can connect to the two receivers i have).

    is this correct?

    many thanks for your help. Am pretty keen to get it installed asap.
     
    Last edited: 3 Dec 2020
  5. Johnmdc

    Johnmdc

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    They are motorised valves not pumps.
    It's up to you how you do it, as you say it would be easy to put the receivers where the existing thermostats are now and wire them as you said.
    Or you could put them where the valves are and wire them into the wiring box there. If you want to do that I can talk you through what connections you need to make.
     
  6. Stillsy

    Stillsy

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    Hi John

    thanks for your response, i am hoping to get this completed this weekend now.

    I have put another picture of the wiring centre below and believe i know more or less what i need to do.

    What is baffling me is that there is another third cable, am i right in saying that this runs to the boiler? If so, i guess that i just ignore all wires running to there and leave in situ. With regards to the other two sets, i will remove these and connect the receivers as per what i have written in the picture and disconnect the original wires running to the original thermostats (i will test these once disconnected to ensure they are not carrying any current).

    I think that i also need to put a jump wire in the receivers from COM to L - is that correct?

    I know that i may get the upstairs and downstairs the wrong way round but will just swap the black wires running the receivers if that's the case.

    many thanks
    Paul



    Wiring Centre.jpg
     
  7. ianmcd

    ianmcd

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    your txt in red on your pic is totally wrong, the two orange wires are the switched live from the zone valves and the black brings the boiler on, DO NOT connect an earth to there, colours mean absolutely nothing in a Heating system, do not go by wiring colours except the factory fitted cables at the zone valves which are industry standard
     
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  9. Stillsy

    Stillsy

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    Hi Ian

    thanks for responding. What do I need to do with the connection where to orange wires are if anything? My red text was not saying that I was planning on doing anything with them, don’t think it was clear - I was trying to explain that they disappear into a cable with the other 3rd wires. Ie. There are 3 cables that run into the floor, two of these that have no connection to the orange wires, and I am assuming the other two are to the thermostats, the other with the orange wire I was not going to touch but was wondering where it went (to the boiler? Am thinking that this brings the live to the switches and in turn to the thermostats)

    Are my assumptions correct with the other arrows/wires - seems right to me, it’s just the third wires that am unsure about

    your help is appreciated

    thanks
    Paul
     
    Last edited: 11 Dec 2020
  10. ericmark

    ericmark

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    Two port motorised valve wire colours are normally.
    Green/yellow = Earth
    Brown = Line to motor
    Blue = Neutral to motor
    Grey = Normal open on Micro Switch
    White = Normal closed on Micro Switch often not included
    Orange = Common on Micro Switch
    So you are interested with the Brown wire from motorised valves, second and third down, supply to this will activate valve and then valve activates boiler, but as far as I am aware Hive does not have OpenTherm or ability to be set as slave and master, as far as I am aware EPH are the only thermostats that will work with OpenTherm as slave and master, so Hive may work, but it will not work efficiently as a pair, it would work as a single unit and used the Hive TRV heads to form the zones, and even though no opentherm, it would still likely work in an efficient way, but the Hive wall thermostat is basic a hub and switch, it collects info from the TRV heads, and if any head calls for heat, it runs the boiler for ½ hour, plus also with run boiler it where it is fitted is under temperature, it simply switches boiler on when required and off when not required, and the boiler has to work out output from the return water temperature.

    You can fit loads of thermostats in parallel, but they are simply switches, they do not control the boiler output, they just ensure switched on when required. Great for an oil boiler, but not really designed to work an opentherm enabled gas boiler.
     
  11. Johnmdc

    Johnmdc

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    @ericmark
    The grey is common, orange is NO.
    And why are you obsessively going on about opentherm? The OP never mentioned that.
    To the OP your diagram is mostly right. Don't alter the wiring going to the orange valve wires.
    Disconnect the 2 black wires going to the brown wires of the valves and the brown and grey wires from the same 2 cables to completely disconnect the old thermostats.
    Then connect the 2 new Hive receivers as you have said, with a link between L and 1.
    The above is all assuming that you are fitting the receivers where the valves are.
     
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  12. ianmcd

    ianmcd

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    To let you understand, the Hive receivers simply control the motor in the corresponding zone valve when that valve opens the valve controls the boiler and pump,the hive is simply a switch do not change any other wires, you will need a permanent live and a neutral for each hive receiver and the Brown wire from the corrosponding zone valve will go into 3 on the receiver and a link from L to 1 in the receiver do not alter anything else
     
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  13. ianmcd

    ianmcd

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    No it isnt it is permanent live or com if you like
     
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  14. Johnmdc

    Johnmdc

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    There's an echo in here(y)
     
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