hmmm...

[Zeus95100]

thats stange isnt it, suicide is illegal, yet no one ever gets prosecuted for 'attempted suicide' do they?

And no sorry its not illegal to advise people on how to DIY their own electrics if you want to be pedantic, it is illegal for those unskilled persons to then carry out the works you advise them to do.
To work on electrical systems in the UK the practitioner must be suitable skilled, experienced and knowlegable with the wiring system they are going to work with. They are also required to carry out proper testing and issue certificates to validate this has been done. Is that clearer?

 

[Zeus95100]

Thanks andy, for in some way backing me up that these situations occur. Dont forget that self employed electricians often 'pressure' themselves, knowing full well that if we insisted on blanket isolation all the time we wouldnt just be unpopular, but also find or selves pretty skint and fairly knowlegable on the current events of Jeremy Kyle. I'm not talking about taking extreme risks here.

And kudos on the gloves thing. I have heard that such a thing exists, but never in my (admitedly short) time on the tools seen a sparky pull a pair on. We're these on the dragons den perchance? My ex once bought me a tape measure with a built in clock and notepad, but I never took that to work either

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

I've always routinely worked live, sometimes out of necessity and sometimes out of pure laziness in not switching off - but never to put others in peril. It's a nasty habit I picked up when employed by the LEB many years ago. I don't give a fig, at my considerable age, for the cotton-wool procedures of the HSE. The fact is that electricians often have to work live when fault-finding.


Lucia.

 

[Zeus95100]

Thanks lucia, I especially like the HSE 'cotton wool' part. I was beginning to wonder if I WAS a reckless dangerous rogue trader for a second there.

 

[Lectrician]

and certainly if its a merlin board it doesn't even involve live working!

Your still working inside an open enclosure...

I would amount the same amount of caution to a merlin board as I would, say, and MEM - an MEM board uses full sheild blanking pieces, Merlin mearly blank the cover, even with their unique tab system.

 

[Adam_151]

Thing to remember is that chances are old lucia has had it go wrong on a good number occasions ...hes probably used to the odd breaker going pop and has learnt to stop looking so suprrised now

 

[Lectrician]

Always look away when you snip

 

[Adam_151]

and certainly if its a merlin board it doesn't even involve live working!

Your still working inside an open enclosure...

I would amount the same amount of caution to a merlin board as I would, say, and MEM - an MEM board uses full sheild blanking pieces, Merlin mearly blank the cover, even with their unique tab system.

True, true, most of the modern boards are about the same as such other and merlin is no better than the rest when you are trying to fit an rcbo to a full board and the circuit neutrals have been tie wrapped up and routed down the back

Just was trying to make a distinction that modern boards allow it to be done reasonably safely, where as something like an old dorman smith loadmaster or federal stablok can be a lot more hairy to work inside of

 

[vv2806]

... at my considerable age...

Don't know why but for some reason I thought you are a young lad

 

[Adam_151]

Always look away when you snip

And use someone else cutters for the cables you are not 100% sure about

 

[vv2806]

it is illegal for those unskilled persons to then carry out the works you advise them to do.
To work on electrical systems in the UK the practitioner must be suitable skilled, experienced and knowlegable with the wiring system they are going to work with. They are also required to carry out proper testing and issue certificates to validate this has been done. Is that clearer?

That is not true either. Those unskilled persons can legally carry out works that are not notifiable or even works that are notifiable provided the persons in question notify the LABC in advance.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

thats stange isnt it, suicide is illegal, yet ...

In the UK, not since 1961 actually.

 

[Zeus95100]

*From the 1st January 2005, all electrical work in dwellings will need to comply with Building Regulations Part P requirements and be carried out by persons who are competent to design and undertake the work.

Persons considering undertaking electrical work using unqualified installers or on a DIY basis are required to contact a competent electrician/installer who would be willing to provide a BS7671 Completion Certificate for them and to seek guidance on what may be required prior to covering up the work. Building Control will request sight of, and preferably a copy of, a BS7671 Completion Certificate before being able to issue any Final certificate under the Building Regulations.

This means that electrical work should not be undertaken by unqualified persons unless it is carried out in such a way as to be capable of being inspected, tested and certified by an electrician competent to test the particular installation.

**The five competent person schemes currently in operation are:-

BRE Certification, c/o ECA Inspection & Assessment Services, Mansfield, NG18 2

British Standards Institution, Hemel Hempstead

ELECSA, Borough High Street, London

NICEIC, Albert Embankment, London

NAPIT, The Gardeners' Lodge, Pleasley Vale Business Park, Mansfield.


Long and short of it? well come on you work it out. Some one who isn't competent shouldnt be working on electrics. they are not just endangering themselves but also anyone who might encounter their shoddy work, or live in an ajoining property that may be burnt down as a result.
Im guessing from your vehement opposition to this common sense that these 5 competant persons schemes would find you lacking vv2806?

 

[Zeus95100]

besides vv208, the earlier comment you quoted me on before,trying to say its not true, is the verbatum forming part of the corse content for the 2391. the 2391 is what we call an 'exam' its a difficult concept but it involves actually learning stuff and not just making it up to sound clever.

 

[flameport]

Only 3 schemes now, as BRE was merged into ELECSA some time ago, and BSI don't have any members.

(actually, the BSI scheme has 168 members. A year ago they had 259. With so few members and 35% of them lost in a year they might as well give up now.