Homebase Metal pendant...earth issue?

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piper64

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Just bought a couple of 'brass' pendants that are labelled as double insulated and carry the CE mark. The metal ceiling rose has a flying earth lead to connect it to the lighting circuit, but the holder end is two wires, no earth.
This holder is metal but is isolated by a plastic sleeve, however my issue is that supposing the wires that are connected to the holder were to become detached or are not fitted correctly at manufacture or the flex clamp screw had been overtightened (there is no way to check or tighten the wiring inside the holder, it's all done at the factory prior to assembly.) They could touch the metal outer skin of the bulb holder.
Add to this the fact that there is a rotating on/off switch on the holder meaning that you would be touching the holder each time you turn the light on or off.

Is this normal construction or should all the metal parts be earthed (cpc?)?
 
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Have you link to the fitting purchased?
If the fitting has an earth tail to metallic parts, it cannot be classed double insulated
 
In the room I am in now I have a class II lamp with loads of metal on it, which could only get an earth connection through the chain on which it dangles, which it's highly unlikely that it would conduct the earth. So it is permitted to have non earthed metal parts.

What I did do, as I was afraid of the ceiling rose not taking the weight, and it's hard to hold the weight while connecting, was use a slide in ceiling rose with proper hook, so all pre-wired on the floor, then whole lot slid into place.

I don't have a switched holder, and I can see the problem grabbing hold of the lamp to switch it, with a table or standard lamp really not a problem, with a pendent lamp one has to consider if on reaching up to switch it what happens if you trip?

However having said this, my grandmother would use a double adaptor in the lamp holder with one output switched, and plug the smoothing iron into the light socket as well as the bulb, and it never killed her, and at that time there was no earth on lights. So in real terms although in theory it could happen, in practice very unlikely, and I would not worry about it.
 
PrenticeBoyofDerry said:
Have you link to the fitting purchased?
If the fitting has an earth tail to metallic parts, it cannot be classed double insulated
Click to expand...
I have looked on the Homebase website and there is nothing listed for this pendant. I have tried to do a general search for it online and found nothing. The 'brand' is TCP, of Chinese origin.
I'll try to post some pix if I can.
 
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ericmark said:
In the room I am in now I have a class II lamp with loads of metal on it, which could only get an earth connection through the chain on which it dangles, which it's highly unlikely that it would conduct the earth. So it is permitted to have non earthed metal parts.

What I did do, as I was afraid of the ceiling rose not taking the weight, and it's hard to hold the weight while connecting, was use a slide in ceiling rose with proper hook, so all pre-wired on the floor, then whole lot slid into place.

I don't have a switched holder, and I can see the problem grabbing hold of the lamp to switch it, with a table or standard lamp really not a problem, with a pendent lamp one has to consider if on reaching up to switch it what happens if you trip?

However having said this, my grandmother would use a double adaptor in the lamp holder with one output switched, and plug the smoothing iron into the light socket as well as the bulb, and it never killed her, and at that time there was no earth on lights. So in real terms although in theory it could happen, in practice very unlikely, and I would not worry about it.
Click to expand...

The light fitting would be low down, it has a 1m cord on it so using the on/off switch is easy. My concern is the fact that the metal part that you are going to touch each time it's used isn't earthed. The cord is wired into the inside of the holder and there is no way to access it to make sure it's connected securely.

I remember using a light fitting to power an iron or whatever too, when I was a kid. It was bakelite, not metal.
 
securespark said:
Is it this one?

http://www.homebase.co.uk/en/homebaseuk/daniela-b22-antique-brass-light-fitting-372708
Click to expand...
It's not that one, but the holder is similar except mine has the on/off switch on it. It looks to be constructed the same way, the knurled ring joins the upper dome and the lower shell. You twist the ring off and the two halves come apart slightly. The dome can be moved up the cord, once the cord grip is loosened, to see the wires going into the holder. Normally you can see the screws for connecting these wires, but on mine they are sealed inside the main plastic connector, so must be done at assembly somehow. If I wanted to change the cord, I wouldn't be able to without changing the holder too.

On that one you can see that only two wires go to the holder and the holder seems to be metal. I would imagine that it's sheilded inside where the bulb goes, with a plastic sleeve but the outer shell is not earthed and in close proximity to the wires inside. Is that normal?
 
It is common to have touch control table lamps which are classII with metal casing, so I can see no reason why a pendent lamp should also have metal and be classII.
 
If it says double-insulated and comes from a reputable source, then it should be OK without the earth. If nothing else, next of kin will be able to sue when you get electrocuted :) Most double-insulated appliances will explicitly say that they shouldn't be earthed. No point going to all that trouble to keep electricity off the metal case, then attaching a wire to it!
 
ianniann said:
If it says double-insulated and comes from a reputable source, then it should be OK
Click to expand...

Homebase + unknown brand...'should' be fine.
It's the proximity of the wires to the metal casing and the inability to check that they are connnected securely that concerns me.

Out of interest, why is the ceiling plate earthed then?
 
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