Hot water in F/E tank. Hot water trickle out tap. Steam loft

[JohnHamer1977]

Hi,

Before I start let me just tell you I know absolutly nothing about plumbing only what I can work out logically.

What I have got:
- I have a cylinder heater in a red insulation jacket in the back bedroom.
- I have a F and E tank in the loft.
(Central heating system is totally seperate to hot water system.)

Problem (in order of events) started about a week ago:
- notice damp patches on plaster in bedrooms
- pop head up into loft and see dripping water all over
- call out roofer as I thought I may have a leak
- roofer says it's only condensation roof need a vent
- not needed a vent before so didn't let him do it

Now things start to become a bit clearer...
- Hot water has been coming out of tap very slow, but far worse day before xmas-eve
- Xmas eve next door neighbour knock on and tell me there loft has damp in it and they can here bubbling coming from my side
- I climb into loft and find it full of steam
- Steam is coming fom tank situated right next to our seperating wall
- Next door tells me this is an F and E tank
- I switch off cylider heater with red jacket via a switch, we have never touched this before... it always stays on.

Other maybe relavent info:
- a few days after we first moved in the hot water tap had no water coming out of it, a plumber fixed "diaphram" with a piece of wire (or that's what he told us) and that made it better.


Any ideas about what we should do to fix the F and E getting full of hot water and steaming the loft up?
Shall we leave the cylider heater turned off?
What do you think is making the water only trickle from hot tap as it happened at the same time somehow it must be realated to the steam and hot water in F and E tank?

Helpp!!!!!

 

[ChrisR]

Feed and Expansion is the term for the small tank, for the heating.
Not connected to the hot water cylinder, directly.
Big tank up there is just yer cold water tank - provides water to be heated in the HW cylinder.

Are you saying you leave an electric immersion heater on all the time? They have termostats which (used to) fail ON - so the water boils and steam goes up the vent over the big tank.
So, pro tem, just turn the heater off when the water's hot, unless the sheds are open already in which case go buy a thermostat. Take yours out first to see how long it is. They may tell you that you have to buy a new immersion heater to get a thermostat which would be typical Bolloqqs and Qrap for you.
The thermostat is inside the head of the immersion heater. Turn the power off and undo the one nut/screw which releases the cap of the head, then you'll find a wobbly bit inside. Undo its wires, noiting where they came from, and slide it out.

 

[Agile]

The red jacket on your hot water cylinder indicates that your system is very old, probably at least 30 years.

You clearly have no knowledge about how your system works. I would expect your hot water is heated by the boiler and by the immersion heater as well if its switched on.

Operating the boiler may cause more problems but the electric immersion can probably be used to give hot water.

You can go and buy a couple of electric fan heaters.

There are probably several faults on your system. I suspect you have never had it inspected or serviced.

It is probably sludged up and will need power flushing at about £350, its also a possibility that the boiler thermostat has failed. You could try turning it down to minimum and see if you can run the heating without producing the steam.

You need a competent heating engineer to assess the problem(s) and recommend a solution. Best to get one by recommendation or if not a member of the IPHE as they have a complaints procedure.

Tony

 

[JohnHamer1977]

Feed and Expansion is the term for the small tank, for the heating.
Not connected to the hot water cylinder, directly.
Big tank up there is just yer cold water tank - provides water to be heated in the HW cylinder.

Are you saying you leave an electric immersion heater on all the time? They have termostats which (used to) fail ON - so the water boils and steam goes up the vent over the big tank.
So, pro tem, just turn the heater off when the water's hot, unless the sheds are open already in which case go buy a thermostat. Take yours out first to see how long it is. They may tell you that you have to buy a new immersion heater to get a thermostat which would be typical Bolloqqs and Qrap for you.
The thermostat is inside the head of the immersion heater. Turn the power off and undo the one nut/screw which releases the cap of the head, then you'll find a wobbly bit inside. Undo its wires, noiting where they came from, and slide it out.

Hi... thanks for the reply

Yes we have the cylinder heater (is this an emmersion?) on all the time it's never been a problem before.

Yes there is a pipe coming off the cylinder heater goin into the loft and just points over the side of the square tank with water in it.
This water in this tank is hot (I am sure this should be cold as the plumber who sorted the no hot water when we 1st moved in said it supplied the toilet system).
This tank is full and the ball cock is at it's limit.

It does make sense to be the thermastat... but why is the hot water out of the tap running so slow?

Thanks mate

 

[JohnHamer1977]

The red jacket on your hot water cylinder indicates that your system is very old, probably at least 30 years.
yes could be right as it was an old man in here before us
You clearly have no knowledge about how your system works. I would expect your hot water is heated by the boiler and by the immersion heater as well if its switched on.
no the hot water is seperate from the boiler all together (that only does the radiators), hot water only comes from the cylinder heater (is this the emmersion?)
Operating the boiler may cause more problems but the electric immersion can probably be used to give hot water.
the boiler just for rads
You can go and buy a couple of electric fan heaters.
what do you use these for? to tae the damp out of the loft?
There are probably several faults on your system. I suspect you have never had it inspected or serviced.
no, I wasn't aware you had to

It is probably sludged up and will need power flushing at about £350, its also a possibility that the boiler thermostat has failed. You could try turning it down to minimum and see if you can run the heating without producing the steam.
ouch!!! would have a combi fitted before doing that I can not afford that much so would have to get a loan, if I was getting a loan I would fit a new system
You need a competent heating engineer to assess the problem(s) and recommend a solution. Best to get one by recommendation or if not a member of the IPHE as they have a complaints procedure.

Tony

OK thanks Tony

 

[JohnHamer1977]

Just looked at the deffinitions sticky and yes the cylinder I have is a Immersion.
edited away to stop confusion

 

[ChrisR]

SLow flow - are you in a hard water area? Sometimes old cylinders fill with limescale, literally. Otherwise, it's possible that the boiling water has produced enough bubbles to cause an air lock in the hw pipes. Do a search, but basically you'd have to force CW up the HW pipe to shove the bubbles into the loft.

It's important to know which - assuming you have two - tanks in the loft has the hot water problem. Big like 3 ft across, or about 1ft x 1ft x 1ft 6?

Also have a look round your cylinder for words - "Primatic" would be, er, interesting.

 

[Agile]

there is always a very small possibility that the steaming vent pipe has been fitted about the heating tank byt mistake!

I come across about two of these every year!

The fan heater was to keep YOU warm if your boiler stat is failed!

Drying out the loft might be agood idea too.

Tony

 

[JohnHamer1977]

SLow flow - are you in a hard water area? Sometimes old cylinders fill with limescale, literally. Otherwise, it's possible that the boiling water has produced enough bubbles to cause an air lock in the hw pipes. Do a search, but basically you'd have to force CW up the HW pipe to shove the bubbles into the loft.

It's important to know which - assuming you have two - tanks in the loft has the hot water problem. Big like 3 ft across, or about 1ft x 1ft x 1ft 6?

Also have a look round your cylinder for words - "Primatic" would be, er, interesting.

Hi mate... thanks again for your help

Is there anyway I can find out if it's a hard water area?

I have done a search previously and did the mixer tap air lock thing...
Cover mixer tap
Put hand over
Turn on hot tap
Turn on clod tap
Hold for few mins
Turn off hot tap
Turn off cold tap
Get wet from spray!!!

^^^ didn't seem to do much... done it only twice would you say go through the motions again??? if yes how many times before giving up on that one.

I will just go and measure the tanks.

On the imersion heater it says REDRING P27

 

[JohnHamer1977]

Here's some pictures:
Big tank is: 1'7" x 2'3"
Small tanks is: 1' x 1'7"
Immersion heater says REDRING P27
And the next image is the white spots looks worse on the pic to b honest but damage all the same

 

[Agile]

Do you REALLY only have a total of TWO pipes connecting onto youy hot water cylinder?

On in the picture at the top and ONE near the bottom ???

Tony

 

[ChrisR]

Lots of confusion here. The pretty pic from Tapstore is junk. If you plumbed things that way you'd be in trouble.
Again - WHICH loft tank is the one getting hot?

Does your boiler (as in gas, for central heating) also heat your HW cylinder?

Check your kettle to see if you're in a hard water area. Where are you , someone might know.

Use your washing machine taps + copnnecting wm hose to clear air lock, a burst of five seconds will probably do. Repeat if not, but the tank can overflow of course.

And change that glavanised cistern pdq, before it dumps 50 gallons though the rusty patches.

 

[JohnHamer1977]

Do you REALLY only have a total of TWO pipes connecting onto youy hot water cylinder?

On in the picture at the top and ONE near the bottom ???

Tony

hi mate,
no there are more, fancy another photo...

 

[ChrisR]

If you'd answer the questions......

 

[JohnHamer1977]

hi chris sorry for the confusion...

Lots of confusion here. The pretty pic from Tapstore is junk. If you plumbed things that way you'd be in trouble.
Again - WHICH loft tank is the one getting hot?
the BIG tank was hot with steam comeing off it, to be honest until today I had never even noticed the small one was there!!!
This BIG tank is "now" full of cold water which is to be expected as we have not had the immersion heater on since xmas eve.
Does your boiler (as in gas, for central heating) also heat your HW cylinder?
No, the central heating system is seperate.
Check your kettle to see if you're in a hard water area. Where are you , someone might know.
I asked the kettle it didn't know either LOL... I am not sure what I am looking for kettle looks normal, I am in Droylsden, Manchester I don't know if that's known as a hard water area
Use your washing machine taps + copnnecting wm hose to clear air lock, a burst of five seconds will probably do. Repeat if not, but the tank can overflow of course.
will try that tomorrow
And change that glavanised cistern pdq, before it dumps 50 gallons though the rusty patches.

The immersion heater still feels warm and we are still getting some warm water trickling from the warm tap which makes sense.
So what does the small tank in the loft do?