House project (kitchen + shower room)

[ThePinkPanther]

Hi all

I have found these forums very helpful in the past. Usually I have found that somebody has already had the same problem and so there is an old post that can help me. We’re just about to take on a large project (for us at least!) so I thought I would join up.

I have some preliminary questions (and hope I have posted this in the correct section – if not please feel free to move it) and I expect that in the coming months this will spawn a few more specific posts as we go along.

We have a 1930s semi-detached house in south Manchester, which was extended by the previous owners. There is a two storey extension to the side of the house and a single storey extension across the back. Here is a layout of the ground floor (the scale is probably not that accurate):

Untitled

• ThePinkPanther
• 19 Jan 2012
• 1

We would like to change the layout of the ground floor by knocking through to create a decent size kitchen diner. We would like to keep the downstairs toilet but would like access to this to be from the hall rather than the kitchen and we would like to add a shower.

Part of the wall we want to remove is load bearing (a section of the original cavity wall) it is also propping up a steel support from the previous extension out the back.

Here is a (reasonably to scale) sketch of the existing layout of the part we want to alter:

Untitled

• ThePinkPanther
• 19 Jan 2012
• 1

and a proposed new layout (the precise location of the new stud wall and the units/worktops are not quite decided yet):

Untitled

• ThePinkPanther
• 19 Jan 2012
• 1

One of my neighbours is a builder and he has been recommended by some other neighbours. I think the plan will be for him to do the building work; I’ll put in the kitchen/shower room except for the plumbing and electrics.

Now for the questions!

1. Our builder has said that we do not necessary need to get an engineer to calculate the loads/ spec the steel work and we do not necessarily need to notify building control but we can do both if we want to. We will definitely get an engineer involved since I feel that it isn’t worth the risk of skimping here. Regarding the notification – is our builder right? And if we decide not to have the work signed off are there implications when we come to sell the house?

2. Is it likely that the new steel can just rest on existing bits of cavity wall or is it likely that we’ll need a small return into the room at each end to support it sufficiently? If so does anyone have any idea (roughly) how big this will need to be (so we can plan the kitchen layout)?

3. With our constraints, I don’t see that there is a great deal of design freedom but can anyone see any obvious flaws in our proposed layout?

4. I understand that Howdens units come made up glued + dowelled. Does any know if Howdens will supply one unit flatpacked so that I can cut the various bits out for the boiler before assembly?

All comments and suggestions welcome; thanks in advance.

Chris

 

[tim00]

1. If i visualise your sketches correctly, you will be doing a "double knock-thro" ie. knocking thro where it was opened-up before.
You will therefore have a point load ( the original corner of the house ) approx. in the middle of your steel.
Both the above are well within the skill of experienced builders, but both offer more than the usual difficulties.

2. You will be losing quite a bit of floor space and creating an odd layout for a semi. Oddity does not sell so i'm told. Have you had say, an architec. tech./designer give you a view on what you propose?

3. Given the disturbance involved, can you, in one sentence, say what it is that you wish to achieve? Do you have some sort of multi-occupancy in mind?

 

[ThePinkPanther]

Hi Tim00, thanks for your reply.

You are visualising my sketches correctly, we will be knocking through where it was opened before. When you say it is well within the skill of experienced builders, does that mean that we do not need to notify BC? Also, if notifying BC is optional, is there any disadvantage to not notifying BC?

Thanks for your comments about the layout. When you say it is a bit odd for a semi, what do you mean? One of the motivations for this prioject is that we find the existing layout rather odd! (A strange second front door that opens onto our driveway and a very small WC that can only be accessed via the kitchen.)

Basically, in a sentence: we would like to knock through to create a decent size kitchen diner and we would like to keep a downstairs toilet but would like access to this to be from the hall rather than the kitchen. The motivation for adding the shower was that, if we have room for it then I feel a second shower in a 4 bedroom family house can't be a bad thing.

We haven't asked an architect/designer yet mainly because, bearing in mind what we want, and the fact that we don't want to go through the cupboard under the stairs, we didn't think there were many options. But I would welcome any comments or suggestions from any that might be reading this

 

[simonjay]

Hi Tim00, thanks for your reply.

You are visualising my sketches correctly, we will be knocking through where it was opened before. When you say it is well within the skill of experienced builders, does that mean that we do not need to notify BC? Also, if notifying BC is optional, is there any disadvantage to not notifying BC?

Thanks for your comments about the layout. When you say it is a bit odd for a semi, what do you mean? One of the motivations for this prioject is that we find the existing layout rather odd! (A strange second front door that opens onto our driveway and a very small WC that can only be accessed via the kitchen.)

Basically, in a sentence: we would like to knock through to create a decent size kitchen diner and we would like to keep a downstairs toilet but would like access to this to be from the hall rather than the kitchen. The motivation for adding the shower was that, if we have room for it then I feel a second shower in a 4 bedroom family house can't be a bad thing.

We haven't asked an architect/designer yet mainly because, bearing in mind what we want, and the fact that we don't want to go through the cupboard under the stairs, we didn't think there were many options. But I would welcome any comments or suggestions from any that might be reading this

The side extension was probably built as a granny flat, thus the extra front door !

Why do you not want to go through the cupboard under the stairs ?
Is there a consumer unit / fuse box in there ?
It seems like the obvious solution. The horrid dogleg corridor will be a nightmare.

Simon.

 

[tim00]

1. You would be well advised to submit a drawing and take out bldg. regs. and calcs. BCO's are often a fund of similar, previous experiences, and excellent advice before and during the job.

2. Why cant, or wont, you go thro the understairs? Moving any utilities eg. CU is relatively strightforward.

3. the access lobby you create is the odd bit, and its an awful waste of space. Any estate agent will probably advise the same. Why not call one, they too have experience.

4. Do you have any experience of this kind of work, and what your structural proposal entails?

5. in brief, you really should get some, on the ground, design advice.

 

[tim00]

I now notice and note that simon, above, says the same thing about the lobby.

 

[ThePinkPanther]

Thanks tim00 and simonjay for your replies.

I don't think that the new corridor would look too odd in the flesh because my in laws have a similar set up in their house which looks fine. That said, I agree that we would be losing quite a bit of space so we're going to go back to the drawing board and will consider going under the stairs.

I'll let you know how we get on.

Chris

 

[ThePinkPanther]

Just a quick update.

Following tim00 and simonjay's advice, we did end up going through under the stairs to access the WC. Here are the drawings that we submitted with our BC application:

Untitled

• ThePinkPanther
• 26 Jun 2012
• 1

Existing

Untitled

• ThePinkPanther
• 26 Jun 2012
• 1

Proposed

The work has started now and I'll try to add some photos soon.

C

 

[tony1851]

I'll try to add some photos soon.

C

Send pics of the frontage and I'll try and work out where in s. Manchester you are.
I'd be interested to deduce which Inspector you have - you might just have drawn the short straw!!!!!!

 

[ThePinkPanther]

Hi tony 1851, I'll sort some pics soon but we're technically in Stockport if that helps? BCO seems OK to be honest but I don't have anything to compare to.