House rewire certification

[lynch_i]

Hi,

I had my house rewired by a friend who is an electrician of many years. He did the whole house over a period of time, as we decorated each room, and completed the job over the period of about a year.

I am now about to sell my house and have no certificate for the work and wonder what problems this may cause? I have every faith that the job has been done to a good standard but am wondering if I can/need to do anything regarding this, will this be a problem?

Any help/advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

[riveralt]

All solicitors now include a paragraph on the disclosure form that you will have to complete which asks if any electrical work has been completed and in some cases they ask for electrical Installation certificates and Local Authority Building Control notification certificate.

I do work for solicitors that receive a negative comment in this part of the disclosure report in so much as I check out the electrical installation via a Periodic Inspection Report and make recommendations on any electrical work that needs doing and the price that work will cost.

In your case, if you have no certificates then its very unlikely that you or your electrician will have notified your Local Authority Building Control and therefore you will have broken the law.

If the solicitors insist on some form of certification then you will have to get a Periodic Inspection Report completed by a competent electrician.

As far as the labc notification, if they find out you could be prosecuted - not seen one yet though - alternatively you can submit an retrospective application to the LABC though they will charge you a lot more.

I personally wouldn't touch a house without some form of Electrical Inspection Report and would always recommend the buyer deducts an amount off the valuation in order to obtain such certificates or bring the house up to legal spec.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I am now about to sell my house and have no certificate for the work

You may well not have a Building Regulations completion certificate for the rewire, but if your friend really was a proper electrician then he would have tested his work and given you an Electrical Installation Certificate for it.

If he didn't do that then the work was not done to a good standard.

and wonder what problems this may cause?

Not answering any buyer questions truthfully is a mad idea, as it turns the sale into fraud.

The chances of your council coming after you for non-notification are smaller than my chances of a pay rise this year - firstly it was your electrician who did the work and was therefore the one liable to notify, and secondly nobody has ever been prosecuted for not notifying.

I have every faith that the job has been done to a good standard but am wondering if I can/need to do anything regarding this, will this be a problem?

IMO going down the regularisation route is pointless - own up to buyers' solicitors and add £500/£1000 to the price which you can then knock off again when the buyer wants you to pay for an inspection.

 

[ericmark]

You don't say when it was re-wired. Before 2004 there was no need for a completion certificate. Or to inform the LABC. It is the date it was planned not date completed that matters.

However it should still have an insulation certificate and as BAS says no certificate often means a botched job. Saying that my son pre-2004 did a few re-wires and he should have kept copies of the insulation certificate but when he stopped trading and went to live in a narrow boat they were binned. But he did keep for some time so maybe your mate still has copies? First I would ask as before 2004 many house holders just didn't want the bits of paper even though they were made out. Even if he hasn't if a good guy he will likely make out a set for you if still trading. My son has refused due to no longer being insured to do PIR but back dating to pre-2004 likely no problem.

After 2004 the owner should inform the LABC before the job starts. This is often done by the electrician for the home owner

 

[ban-all-sheds]

After 2004 the owner should inform the LABC before the job starts.

No - it is the person doing the work who has to notify.

 

[bernardgreen]

if your friend really was a proper electrician then he would have tested his work and given you an Electrical Installation Certificate for it.

If he didn't do that then the work was not done to a good standard.

That is an unfair and non valid assumption. The work could have been done to a very high standard even if a certificate was not issued.

The inverse is more likely, some electricians produce certificates for work they have done to a very poor standard.

One reason why some astute house buyers give no credance to the certificates the seller produces and in the offer include a contigency reduction for major electrical work.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That is an unfair and non valid assumption. The work could have been done to a very high standard even if a certificate was not issued.

IMO issuing an EIC is an integral part of doing a good job.

No EIC = not a good job.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I would get the friendly electrician to come around and do a PIR on the system they installed!

 

[Electrifying]

After 2004 the owner should inform the LABC before the job starts.

No - it is the person doing the work who has to notify.

A lot of confusion over this issue - and as I don't use this route, I thought I'd check out my local council 'Building Notice' application form.

The first box on the form states:

1. Applicants details (see note 1) Failure to provide your
full name will mean your application cannot be processed.

First Name ……...........................................………………..
Surname ………………………………………………..…..…
Address ....................……………………………………..…..
……………………………………………………………………
Postcode ........…..…..…..…. Tel ...…..........………...……
Fax ..........................………. Email ……..……………..….

Accompanying the form were a set of notes:

Note 1 states:

1. The applicant is the person on whose behalf the work is being carried out, e.g. the building’s owner.


BUT...........

Note 4 states:

4. Persons carrying out building work must give written notice of the commencement of the work at least two days beforehand.


So, it looks like the owner/person ordering work is responsible for the initial notification, but persons carrying out the work (e.g. Mr Sparky), have to notify there intention to commence work on the job.

I think, in that case, that the building owner would be ultimately responsible for notification - as they have to make the first application.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Notice of commencement and completion of certain stages of work

16. - (2) Subject to paragraph (8), a person carrying out building work shall not—

(a)cover up any excavation for a foundation, any foundation, any damp-proof course or any concrete or other material laid over a site; or.
(b)cover up in any way any drain or sewer to which these Regulations apply, unless that person has given the local authority notice of intention to commence that work, and at least one day has elapsed since the end of the day on which the notice was given..

Why would they have that requirement if the meaning of the term "person carrying out building work" was "person who commissioned building work to be carried out by someone else"? Big problem with householders employing builders and then covering up foundations and drains is there?


CO2 emission rate calculations

27. —(1) This regulation applies where a building is erected and regulation 26 applies.

(2) Not later than the day before the work starts, the person carrying out the work shall give the local authority a notice which specifies—

(a)the target CO2 emission rate for the building,.
(b)the calculated CO2 emission rate for the building as designed, and.
(c)a list of specifications to which the building is to be constructed..
(3) Not later than five days after the work has been completed, the person carrying out the work shall give the local authority—

(a)a notice which specifies—.
(i)the target CO2 emission rate for the building,.
(ii)the calculated CO2 emission rate for the building as constructed, and.
(iii)whether the building has been constructed in accordance with the list of specifications referred to in paragraph (2)(c), and if not a list of any changes to those specifications; or.
(b)a certificate of the sort referred to in paragraph (4) accompanied by the information referred to in sub-paragraph (a)..

Poor old householder has got to learn an awful lot of stuff these days before he can get the builders in, it seems.

Still - at least he shouldn't get into any arguments when he also gives an energy performance certificate...



... to himself ...


Energy performance certificates

29. — mechanical ventilation..
(2) The person carrying out the work shall—

(a)give an energy performance certificate for the building to the owner of the building;


And just think of how much money all these electricians, plumbers, window installers etc have thrown away over the years taking out totally unnecessary membership of various Competent Person schemes, because it's the householder who has to be a member, not them:

Provisions applicable to self-certification schemes

20. —(1) This regulation applies to the extent that the building work consists only of work of a type described in column 1 of the Table in Schedule 3 and the work is carried out by a person who is described in the corresponding entry in column 2 of that Table in respect of that type of work.

And there he goes again, giving a certificate to himself...

(3) Where this regulation applies, the person carrying out the work shall, not more than 30 days after the completion of the work—

(a)give to the occupier a copy of the certificate referred to in paragraph (2);

 

[Electrifying]

Another cut-and-paste reply from one of your previous posts - and all 'Totally Irrelevant' to the initial notification of proposed works.

The home/building owner submits the 'Initial Application/Building Notice' - and pays the appropriate fee!! - then there are various stages at which further notifications are required.....more often than not by the 'person carrying out the work'

For example:-

•Excavation for foundations
•Foundation concrete
•Damp Proof Course
•Before any material is laid over the site
•Drains Laid
•Drains after backfilling

Along with the notification of various 'trades' prior to commencement of their particular part of the job.


That is why the 'Heading' of your 'cut-and-paste' states ......Notice of commencement and completion of certain stages of work .......because that's what it is describing - nothing to do with the initial application, nor your sarcastic comments!!

So, once again, wind your neck in - you are wrong!!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Once again, I am right.

Read the regulations - try substituting homeowner/householder/building owner wherever you see the phrase "person carrying out the work" or equivalent, and see how much sense it makes.

Also, try reading para 2.4 of this: http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/explanatorybooklet.pdf

 

[Electrifying]

Once again, I am right.

Read the regulations - try substituting homeowner/householder/building owner wherever you see the phrase "person carrying out the work" or equivalent, and see how much sense it makes.

I don't need to do this to prove my point - the 'person carrying out the work' is responsible for some aspects of notification - I have shown that in my previous posts, BUT.....


The initial submission of the building notice, and payment of respective fees, is the responsibility of the home/building owner.

Are you trying to tell me that if I wanted to build an extension on my house, using various firms to complete the work, then the 'Bricklayer' I chose would have to complete a 'Building Notice Application Form', and pay the fee........the 'Gasfitter' I chose would have to complete a 'Building Notice Application Form' and pay the fee.......the non-registered 'Electrician' I chose would have to complete a 'Building Notice Application Form' and pay the fee........the 'Plumber' I chose to lay the drains would have to complete a 'Building Notice Application Form' and pay the fee?????

Don't be ridiculous...... I would complete the 'Building Notice Application Form' and pay the fee - and I wouldn't be the 'person carrying out the work!!

Also, try reading para 2.4 of this: http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/explanatorybooklet.pdf[/QUOTE]

As for this:

2.4 The primary responsibility for achieving compliance with the
regulations rests with the person carrying out the building work.
So if you are carrying out the work personally the responsibility
will be yours. If you are employing a builder the responsibility
will usually be that firm’s – but you should confirm this position
at the very beginning. You should also bear in mind that if you
are the owner of the building, it is ultimately you who may be
served with an enforcement notice if the work does not comply
with the regulations (see paragraph 6.3). So it is important that
you choose your builder carefully (see paragraph 2.11).

Apart from the highlighted section - which seems to support my argument - this paragraph only states who is responsible for achieving compliance with the Building Regs, not who is responsible for initial notification........why are you posting irrelevant references??

 

[plugwash]

Hi,

I had my house rewired by a friend who is an electrician of many years. He did the whole house over a period of time, as we decorated each room, and completed the job over the period of about a year.

How long ago was this?
Have you approached your electrician friend about the lack of a certificate?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I don't need to do this to prove my point

Just as well, because you can't.

The initial submission of the building notice, and payment of respective fees, is the responsibility of the home/building owner.

No - it is the responsibility of the person carrying out the work.

Just try reading the regulations - it really isn't that hard.

Are you trying to tell me that if I wanted to build an extension on my house, using various firms to complete the work, then the 'Bricklayer' I chose would have to complete a 'Building Notice Application Form', and pay the fee........the 'Gasfitter' I chose would have to complete a 'Building Notice Application Form' and pay the fee.......the non-registered 'Electrician' I chose would have to complete a 'Building Notice Application Form' and pay the fee........the 'Plumber' I chose to lay the drains would have to complete a 'Building Notice Application Form' and pay the fee?????

You could have it that way, if you chose, but it wouldn't half increase the costs.

Or you could, if you chose, act as their agents and submit a single application on their behalf.

Or you could, if you chose, have someone act as your agent and draw up the plans and specifications and submit the application before you'd found anyone to do the work.

Just because it is Person A's responsibility that does not mean that they cannot have someone else (i.e. you, or a 3rd party) do it for them.

Don't be ridiculous...... I would complete the 'Building Notice Application Form' and pay the fee - and I wouldn't be the 'person carrying out the work!!

You are free to do that, if you choose.

As for this:

2.4 The primary responsibility for achieving compliance with the
regulations rests with the person carrying out the building work.
So if you are carrying out the work personally the responsibility
will be yours. If you are employing a builder the responsibility
will usually be that firm’s – but you should confirm this position
at the very beginning. You should also bear in mind that if you
are the owner of the building, it is ultimately you who may be
served with an enforcement notice if the work does not comply
with the regulations (see paragraph 6.3). So it is important that
you choose your builder carefully (see paragraph 2.11).

Apart from the highlighted section - which seems to support my argument

Shall I highlight another part?

2.4 The primary responsibility for achieving compliance with the
regulations rests with the person carrying out the building work.
So if you are carrying out the work personally the responsibility
will be yours. If you are employing a builder the responsibility
will usually be that firm’s

- this paragraph only states who is responsible for achieving compliance with the Building Regs, not who is responsible for initial notification........why are you posting irrelevant references??

It's not irrelevant.

Giving a notice and submitting plans etc is one of the requirements of the Building Regulations.

And the primary responsibility for achieving compliance with the
regulations rests with the person carrying out the building work.