House rewire

[jowniofownio212]

Hi

New to the forum and have a few questions about a new installation I am going to do.

I am soon to move into my new house which is in need of a rewire and want to get everything ready and planned ready to move in. Here are my questions:

1) Can I mount the consumer unit and meter under the stairs and feed everything from here inc upstairs?

2) which circuits need an RCD and does the mains need an RCD too?

3) I take it a rewire consists of all cables replaced? Does it mean anything more?

4) are there any regulations I need to be aware of when doing the installation?

5) how to I replace cables and get access to behind plaster board without having to cut all the plasterboard and remove loads of floor panels? Any tips?

6) at some point I want solar panels on the roof so want to put any wiring in now. Can I put the controller and transformer under the stairs with the consumer unit and meter? If so will it just be cable from under stairs to roof and what cable is this?
Thanks

Jon

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Hi

New to the forum and have a few questions about a new installation I am going to do.

I am soon to move into my new house which is in need of a rewire and want to get everything ready and planned ready to move in.

You need to get an electrician in there before you move in, then.

1) Can I mount the consumer unit and meter under the stairs and feed everything from here inc upstairs?

You can have your electrician put the CU there. If the meter isn't there already then you'll need the DNO to move it, and you should budget a tidy sum for it.

2) which circuits need an RCD and does the mains need an RCD too?

Your electrician will take care of that.

3) I take it a rewire consists of all cables replaced? Does it mean anything more?

More as in do you want to keep existing switches and sockets etc or replace them, and do you want the same number of sockets, switches and lights etc, in the same places or do you want changes?

Or more as in there's an awful lot more to doing the job than just replacing cables and accessories?

4) are there any regulations I need to be aware of when doing the installation?

I'd start with The Building Regulations. See also //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:part-p.

5) how to I replace cables and get access to behind plaster board without having to cut all the plasterboard and remove loads of floor panels? Any tips?

This will be a skill your electrician has. Hopefully.

6) at some point I want solar panels on the roof so want to put any wiring in now. Can I put the controller and transformer under the stairs with the consumer unit and meter? If so will it just be cable from under stairs to roof and what cable is this?

Your electrician and/or solar panel installer will take care of that.

Thanks

NP.

As ever, personal recommendations are always the best way to find a reputable tradesman, but if you're having to go ahead without much in the way of those, or references, don't put any store by registration itself - sadly it is possible to become registered with woefully inadequate qualifications and zero practical experience. You don't have to spend long here to see people cropping up who are registered and "qualified", but who are clearly seriously incompetent in reality and who should not be charging for their services.

You are looking for someone to rewire a house, and it may surprise and dismay you to learn that it is quite possible to become a "registered electrician" without ever having done that even once before, let alone having acquired any of the practical skills needed to do it without half-destroying your house in the process.

It's your money, £'000s of it, and you have every right to ask prospective tradesmen what their qualifications and experience are. Just being listed here is not a good enough guide. No genuinely experienced electrician, with the "full set" of C&G qualifications will mind you asking - in fact he will wish that everyone was like you.

I feel sorry for people who have been misled by training organisations and (shamefully) the Competent Person scheme organisers into thinking that a 5-day training course, a couple of trivial examples of their work and some basic understanding of how to use test equipment will make them an electrician, but not sorry enough to agree with them trying to sell their services to Joe Public.

 

[jowniofownio212]

Thanks for replies and advice

I am a maintenance electrician for industrial work so have an understanding for the electrical circuits and safety. It's just house regulations such as what RCDs are needed for each circuit. I will be doing the job myself before moving in and it will be inspected and tested by a qualified electrician.

I just need the questions above answering so I can do it my self.

I noticed you mentioned moving the meter will cost a fair amount. Why is this? Does the mains to the house need isolating by the council for this to be done?

Thanks

 

[sparkwright]

As said before, you really need to get an electrician to this work as the questions you have asked indicate you are not competent to do it yourself.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I am a maintenance electrician for industrial work so have an understanding for the electrical circuits and safety. It's just house regulations such as what RCDs are needed for each circuit.

Buy a copy of BS 7671, the On-Site Guide, the Electrician's Guide To The Building Regulations and GN3.

I will be doing the job myself before moving in and it will be inspected and tested by a qualified electrician.

That's not how Building Regulations compliance works..

I just need the questions above answering so I can do it my self.

The thing is, rewiring a house, installing new CUs, outside supplies, submains etc is not a trivial job, and I can assure you that it involves knowing far more than you think it does.

Asking questions here can be a useful part of a learning process, but they are not a substitute for proper structured studying. The key term there is "learning process" - you cannot learn all the things you need to know just by asking questions here. It isn't structured enough - it won't provide you with a way to progress where each step builds on what you learned before.

You can't carry out a job of this magnitude by asking whatever random questions happen to occur to you. You've already shown that you have some dodgy misconceptions - what if you get something wrong because you have no idea your knowledge is wrong? What if you miss something because you simply have no idea it even exists, and just don't realise you don't know it?

I noticed you mentioned moving the meter will cost a fair amount. Why is this? Does the mains to the house need isolating by the council for this to be done?

It's nothing to do with the council, and the guys who do it do it live.

 

[ericmark]

You state "I am a maintenance electrician for industrial work" in which case you should know most of the answers?

The BS7671:2008 is the same for domestic as for industrial premises so most your questions do not make sense.

Why if you are a maintenance electrician would you want another electrician to do inspecting and testing? This would be something you would do every day.

OK there is only one explanation. Your not what you say you are. So start again and tell the truth.

As a "maintenance electrician for industrial work" I know all the answers to what you are asking. So what are you really?

 

[jowniofownio212]

I am a maintenance electrician for industrial work so have an understanding for the electrical circuits and safety. It's just house regulations such as what RCDs are needed for each circuit.

Buy a copy of BS 7671, the On-Site Guide, the Electrician's Guide To The Building Regulations and GN3.

I will be doing the job myself before moving in and it will be inspected and tested by a qualified electrician.

That's not how Building Regulations compliance works..

I just need the questions above answering so I can do it my self.

The thing is, rewiring a house, installing new CUs, outside supplies, submains etc is not a trivial job, and I can assure you that it involves knowing far more than you think it does.

Asking questions here can be a useful part of a learning process, but they are not a substitute for proper structured studying. The key term there is "learning process" - you cannot learn all the things you need to know just by asking questions here. It isn't structured enough - it won't provide you with a way to progress where each step builds on what you learned before.

You can't carry out a job of this magnitude by asking whatever random questions happen to occur to you. You've already shown that you have some dodgy misconceptions - what if you get something wrong because you have no idea your knowledge is wrong? What if you miss something because you simply have no idea it even exists, and just don't realise you don't know it?

I noticed you mentioned moving the meter will cost a fair amount. Why is this? Does the mains to the house need isolating by the council for this to be done?

It's nothing to do with the council, and the guys who do it do it live.

Thanks again for the advice. I will have a look at BS7671 to get a better understanding. I know I lack knowlage in domestic work so will work will my electrician to learn and do the job.

You state "I am a maintenance electrician for industrial work" in which case you should know most of the answers?

The BS7671:2008 is the same for domestic as for industrial premises so most your questions do not make sense.

Why if you are a maintenance electrician would you want another electrician to do inspecting and testing? This would be something you would do every day.

OK there is only one explanation. Your not what you say you are. So start again and tell the truth.

As a "maintenance electrician for industrial work" I know all the answers to what you are asking. So what are you really?

I am sorry for not knowing every last thing about domestic electrical work and not being a super electrician who knows everything about everything like yourself. I have only been in the trade for 5 years and maintain machines so house wiring is not something I do everyday.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There are millions of people who know less than you.

But the problem is what you know is not enough to rewire a house.

Nor is what you know + asking random questions here.

 

[SimonH2]

I will be doing the job myself before moving in and it will be inspected and tested by a qualified electrician.

A qualified electrician (or more correctly, one registered with an appropriate body for Part P work) cannot certify other people's work. If you do the owrk yourself then you'll need to notify your Local Authority Building Control (LABC) before starting work, and they will provide you with a completion certificate when it's finished. My LABC charge around £150 for 'minor' electrical works if you can provide test results (which your sparky could provide), and £225 if they have to do the testing (or rather, pay a local spark to test it). I;ve seem comments on here suggesting that some LABCs charge as much as £400 for minor works For a whole house reqire the fees would be a lot more, I'd suggest checking that out before you make any decisions.


If you have an electrician who is a member of a suitable registration scheme and with whom you get on well, it would be best to discuss the job with him and in particular discuss how you might split the labour. If he is amenable, then he can let you do much of the hard work - but of course he'd need to be confident it'll be done to a standard he'd be prepared to put his name to.
He should, of course, be familiar with the regs, and be able to do all the calculations required.
By the time you take into account the LABC fees and the fact your were going to pay him to do testing anyway, then the extra cost of having him do the job with you doing the manual graft may not be that much extra.

I noticed you mentioned moving the meter will cost a fair amount. Why is this?

Because it does Only the DNO (Distribution Network Operator) can do it, they are responsible for the supply up to the output terminals on the meter and it is illegal (apart from the safety aspects) for anyone else to fiddle with the supply upstream of that point.

If the existing meter is in an acceptable position, then an alternative would be to run a submain from the meter to your CU. it will need suitable means of isolation and overload protection - typically using a fuse to (amongst other reasons) provide discrimination between that and your downstream circuit protection (almost certainly MCBs these days).


As to some of the other questions ...
AUIU, there are very few circuits which must be RCD protected, but RCD protection is bar far the easiest way of meeting certain elements of the regs. And the cost of RCDs is now such that it makes very little sense for circuits to not be RCD protected except for specific requirements (such as a dedicated supply for a freezer or computer).
Personally, I'm quite in favour of RCBOs - that way you get individual RCD protection per circuit and it avoids all those "which circuits do I put on which RCD" questions when trying to minimise the impact of faults on other circuits.

As for the possibility of Solar PV, I'd suggest installing a large conduit between loft and CU location so that the cables can be puled in later. These may be quite large, so you need to be quite generous with the conduit size - work on the basis that "what'll take a lot will take a little, but not the other way round" and you really want to be chasing out for this once only.
I'd suggest consulting someone who knows about the subject, I don't know what restrictions there may be if the DC is fed down (inverter near CU rather than in attic) - it'll be non-RCD protected and so may need a certain level of mechanical protection.


And as someone else said, now is an ideal time to ensure that you have all the TV/Satellite/Phone/Data you might need. You can need from 1 to 4 coax cables at the main TV point, and many TVs (or set-top boxes) take a network connection or will do in the not too distant future. Sky boxes may need a phone line. If you wanted to pipe HDMI (eg from a Sky HD+ box at the main TV to a TV in a bedroom) then most extenders require 2xCat5e cables. And so it goes on.
Using decent sized conduit (which goes INTO the box, not stop short and not be lined up with a hole) will give you some degree of flexibility as you'll be able to add/change cabling later without ripping up your decor.

 

[paulandfrodo]

I'm about to refurb a house. part of it is the electrics.

Now, I've got a friendly part P guy.

I'm going to rip out all the stuff already present. I will then get his advice as to what height i should put sockets/switches and app. info when drilling holes in joists.

Then I will do all the donkey work inc. drilling sockets and bringing cables through. It will get replastered. I will then get him to come in and put the consumer unit in.

Oh, he will also come in remove the old consumer unit and put a temp one in so I can run tools.

So, save yourself some dosh. Get a part - p guy who will work WITH you. Get some advice from him, and pay him for his time, don't expect it for free. Be upfront with them.

You might be able to do the tech stuff yourself, but they will do it so much quicker and neater than you... Well, they might not... but you get my drift...

Paul.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

I'm about to refurb a house. part of it is the electrics.

Now, I've got a friendly part P guy.

I'm going to rip out all the stuff already present. I will then get his advice as to what height i should put sockets/switches and app. info when drilling holes in joists.

Then I will do all the donkey work inc. drilling sockets and bringing cables through. It will get replastered.

You were doing ok right up to that last sentence, but now you've created a problem

I will then get him to come in and put the consumer unit in.

Oh, he will also come in remove the old consumer unit and put a temp one in so I can run tools.

So, save yourself some dosh. Get a part - p guy who will work WITH you. Get some advice from him, and pay him for his time, don't expect it for free. Be upfront with them.

You might be able to do the tech stuff yourself, but they will do it so much quicker and neater than you... Well, they might not... but you get my drift...

Paul.